Could Narcan be one of the worst and most inhumane things ever created?

[weargon]

So there's all the counties up north going bankrupt from insane budgets of emergency services being spent on reviving people ODing 3+ times over.

How many of them could have been people trying to CTB?

Even if they're not trying to CTB, is ODing 3-4 times over, a sign that someone wants to continue such a shitty existence?

There's scientists who create ways for crops to grow in poor conditions, saving millions of lives. There's guys who donate rare types of blood who save millions of lives. But then there's some guy who created something that just forces people to endure a shitty existence longer against nature.

I know a lot of people get super emotional and all that bullshit about topics like this, but seriously, an OD should just be an OD. Imagine if you were 100 years old, shitting your pants every day, couldn't remember your own life, you were having heart attacks, and they just kept reviving you over and over and over. WTF is the point?

 

[Jean Améry]

So there's all the counties up north going bankrupt from insane budgets of emergency services being spent on reviving people ODing 3+ times over.

How many of them could have been people trying to CTB?

Even if they're not trying to CTB, is ODing 3-4 times over, a sign that someone wants to continue such a shitty existence?

There's scientists who create ways for crops to grow in poor conditions, saving millions of lives. There's guys who donate rare types of blood who save millions of lives. But then there's some guy who created something that just forces people to endure a shitty existence longer against nature.

I know a lot of people get super emotional and all that bullshit about topics like this, but seriously, and OD should just be an OD. Imagine if you were 100 years old, shitting your pants every day, couldn't remember your own life, you were having heart attacks, and they just kept reviving you over and over and over. WTF is the point?

In case of accidental overdoses it's obviously useful. The problem is not with narcan but the insane, anti-freedom 'lets keep everyone alive at any cost' policy.

 

[weargon]

Good point. Got any ideas on how they could help distinguish accidental overdoses vs intentional ones? Also, if someone accidentally overdoses 3+ times, I don't think they're accidents at that point.

 

[Final Escape]

So there's all the counties up north going bankrupt from insane budgets of emergency services being spent on reviving people ODing 3+ times over.

How many of them could have been people trying to CTB?

Even if they're not trying to CTB, is ODing 3-4 times over, a sign that someone wants to continue such a shitty existence?

There's scientists who create ways for crops to grow in poor conditions, saving millions of lives. There's guys who donate rare types of blood who save millions of lives. But then there's some guy who created something that just forces people to endure a shitty existence longer against nature.

I know a lot of people get super emotional and all that bullshit about topics like this, but seriously, and OD should just be an OD. Imagine if you were 100 years old, shitting your pants every day, couldn't remember your own life, you were having heart attacks, and they just kept reviving you over and over and over. WTF is the point?

It's a terribly backwards system we live under lol! Perverse incentives, create the opposite of what most people would actually want. This is why governments are so dangerous. If moral principles are ignored over time civilization falls apart.

 

[weargon]

Makes me wonder how many old geezers in nursing homes would gladly opt to be put down if they were asked and given an opportunity. I've always thought if I'm too old to wipe my own ass it's time to go. That should be a universal benchmark to life. Once you can no longer take care of your body's most basic function, time to go, unless you're Stephen Hawking or some rare breed of genius.

 

[Jean Améry]

Good point. Got any ideas on how they could help distinguish accidental overdoses vs intentional ones? Also, if someone accidentally overdoses 3+ times, I don't think they're accidents at that point.

An unequivocal message like a suicide note or a clear statement to an eyewitness could help. Of course that would require the decriminalization of suicide.

Who knows how many addicts have a death-wish? There's probably a grey zone between actively suicidal and simply not caring about whether one lives or dies. Or maybe some really are so stupid they'll shoot up no matter what in the search for bliss.

 

[Divine Trinity]

So there's all the counties up north going bankrupt from insane budgets of emergency services being spent on reviving people ODing 3+ times over.

How many of them could have been people trying to CTB?

Even if they're not trying to CTB, is ODing 3-4 times over, a sign that someone wants to continue such a shitty existence?

There's scientists who create ways for crops to grow in poor conditions, saving millions of lives. There's guys who donate rare types of blood who save millions of lives. But then there's some guy who created something that just forces people to endure a shitty existence longer against nature.

I know a lot of people get super emotional and all that bullshit about topics like this, but seriously, an OD should just be an OD. Imagine if you were 100 years old, shitting your pants every day, couldn't remember your own life, you were having heart attacks, and they just kept reviving you over and over and over. WTF is the point?

i consider a lot of common behavior in society suicidal. Taking the risk of death by doing (or not doing) a certain action you're aware of, I think fits the defition.

Suicide: "being or performing a deliberate act resulting in the voluntary death of the person who does it "

Voluntary: "done by design or intention."

If I unexpetedly kill myself while practicing hanging, it's still suicide because I voluntarily took part in highly risky behavior I knew could result in death. Same principles apply to other behavior, regardless of time, or perceived level of risk.

Clarify: Even with a relatively low risk-factor, the person is resigned to possibility of death. Unless not undertaking or performing said action has a higher risk of death. By "time", I mean how long it's expected said action/inaction to cause death.

 

[weargon]

Ah, that's a good way of looking at the definition. I like that. So technically they're all committing suicide anyways by engaging in something with such a high probability of death.

 

[Divine Trinity]

An unequivocal message like a suicide note or a clear statement to an eyewitness could help. Of course that would require the decriminalization of suicide.

Who knows how many addicts have a death-wish? There's probably a grey zone between actively suicidal and simply not caring about whether one lives or dies. Or maybe some really are so stupid they'll shoot up no matter what in the search for bliss.

Actively suicidal: Like most on SS, who pursue their death. Ex: Traditional suicide methods, engagment in highly risky organization activity, acts of self-sacrifice, etc.

Passively suicidal: Those who pursue relatively high-risk activity, but are not making attempts. Ex: drug use, Thrill-seeking, risky sex practices, etc.

Habitually/Institutional/Culturally suicidal: Those who are oblivious or resigned to behaviors that cause reasonable concern for death, and/result resistant to change said behaviors because of personnal, social (family), or cultural beliefs. Ex: Poor lifestyle choices (excluding drug use), Religious practices, cultural traditions, etc.

Clarity: I base this on the person knowing there is, to some extent, risk involved. Occupations like afirefighter, would fall under passive, because concern for personal safety proves they are attempting to minimize danger in high-risk activity, thus not a form of self-sacrifice (nothing against firefighters).

 

[weargon]

Learned something new today!

 

[Divine Trinity]

Ah, that's a good way of looking at the definition. I like that. So technically they're all committing suicide anyways by engaging in something with such a high probability of death.

The risk is relative to if they were to not engage in that activity, assuming they're aware of possible consequences. Ex: Max doesn't take his bp medication, which is likelier to cause death than if he did. Despite the relatively small possibility of the meds, for sake of example, leading to liver failure.

Jumping out of a burning building (assuming no assistance is present) is NOT suicidal because, while death may be likely, not jumping is likelier to result in death. If either act has a mutual probability, it's not suicidal because there's a fixed outcome, therefore not voluntary.

 

[spanishguy22]

It's the humans, not the narcan :-)

 

[weargon]

The risk is relative to if they were to not engage in that activity, assuming they're aware of possible consequences. Ex: Max doesn't take his bp medication, which is likelier to cause death than if he did. Despite the relatively small possibility of the meds, for sake of example, leading to liver failure.

Jumping out of a burning building (assuming no assistance is present) is NOT suicidal because, while death may be likely, not jumping is likelier to result in death. If either act has a mutual probability, it's not suicidal because there's a fixed outcome, therefore not voluntary.

Thanks for all the technical explanations. Voluntary is the key word, I see.

 

[TAW122]

Yes, I will say that in the rarest case of an accidental OD (which does happen, but I think it's over-represented in the statistics as to advance an agenda, but that's another topic though) yes NARCAN can be helpful, but only at that.

@weargon I agree with all your points. I believe that if someone 'accidentally' ODs three times or more, it would be very difficult to say it's an accident. I believe that multiple attempts at suicide especially with determination is a clear sign of wanting to suicide and also that not ALL suicides are a result of mental illness (which is something that bullshit, sheeple society keeps believing and until that changes, very little if any progress will be made). As far as a system to determine it, yes it would be complicated but as a start, one can have first responders respond to the scene and look at said person and if it is evident that it is clearly a suicide, then DO NOT try to save the person, especially if saving the person will result in a high chance of the person becoming a vegetable or suffering even more (near death, oxygen deprived hanging, failed firearm suicide (it can happen to people who don't know where to aim/use the incorrect caliber), failed OD'ing). Finally, yes I believe having an option for the elderly wasting away in nursing homes would be good. Again, since it's an OPTION, it means they have a choice to go whenever they like rather than waste away until natural death. Some people will still refuse to go until their natural death and that helps the nursing home and medical industry while the ones that want to go will be given a dignified death.

Of course, pro-lifers and anti-suicide people will always argue that they don't have the capacity to consent or make rational decisions due to their condition impairing judgment, which I call bullshit because they are suffering immensely but that doesn't conflate with their ability to comprehend and know that they want 'death' or release from pain. Similarly, if using the logic that person's condition (Alzheimers, ALS, cancer, quadriplegia, etc.) causes depression and because they are depressed they can't make a informed decision then that is illogical because depression doesn't mean irrationality. Otherwise criminals (who actually commit real crimes) can just play the depression card to avoid jail/prison sentences and claim that they can't make the decision of right or wrong. Sad that pro-lifers are willing to forgo logic in order to advance their spiel and agenda. It's fucked up really.

@Jean Améry Yeah, I would love to see decriminalization of suicide (even though you will always have people in society that keep spouting 'suicide isn't illegal you aren't going to jail!' or any bullshit lines like that. However, instead of jail, it's a psych ward, which may as well be a prison in some cases) such that mandated reporters, law enforcement, medical professionals, etc. are not allowed to take action against the suicidal especially involuntary force/treatment towards said person. I don't know if there will ever be a day where that is a reality, where people who genuinely attempt suicide will be left uninterrupted and anyone who interferes will face legal consequences. One can only hope... I just hate the mentality of keep everyone alive at all costs, and that mentality needs to die because quantity doesn't mean quality necessarily.

 

[Jen Erik]

Where there's money to be made...