Winona

Winona

Member
Sep 26, 2018
59
Hi!
In some threads I've noticed users told that they were trying to e-mail Dr. N, but he didn't answer. I'm sure he receives thousands of letters from desperate people asking for help or dubious proposals from scammers, so it is probably too naive to think that he may reply. But I'm curious to know, if anyone here has any positive experience of getting in touch with him.
 
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Smilla

Smilla

Visionary
Apr 30, 2018
2,549
I'm beginning to lose respect for the man for other reasons I won't go into right now.
 
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worldexploder

worldexploder

Visionary
Sep 19, 2018
2,821
I e-mailed him a few years back but never got a return message.
 
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worldexploder

worldexploder

Visionary
Sep 19, 2018
2,821
I'm beginning to lose respect for the man for other reasons I won't go into right now.
Is it about the effectiveness of SN?
 
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Smilla

Smilla

Visionary
Apr 30, 2018
2,549
Is it about the effectiveness of SN?

No it's his unbridled money making tactics, coupled with the fact that he said 50 is the age at which one can determine their capacity for continuing to live. Why 50? I was denied entry to their forums with a rather cold email.

I respect Final Exit Network much more—not for profit and all guides are volunteers.

There seems to be an empathy chip missing in PN, although I am grateful for the regulator I bought from them.
 
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worldexploder

worldexploder

Visionary
Sep 19, 2018
2,821
No it's his unbridled money making tactics, coupled with the fact that he said 50 is the age at which one can determine their capacity for continuing to live. Why 50? I was denied entry to their forums with a rather cold email.

I respect Final Exit Network much more—not for profit and all guides are volunteers.

There seems to be an empathy chip missing in PN, although I am grateful for the regulator I bought from them.
That "gotta be over 50" thing always pissed me off too. That's fucked up that you was denied to one of their forums because of your age. Agism is a form of discrimination wether it's aimed at the eldelty or people younger than 50.
 
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Xerxes

Xerxes

Invisible
Nov 8, 2018
936
I never trusted him. I got the vibe that he was capitalizing off people's suffering by offering ways out via book. Same goes for T. J. because he didn't give a shit when I talked to him about my experiences. Kept on telling me to buy his book to get a better understanding of my illness.
 
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P

psychopomp

Member
Jun 19, 2018
20
I never trusted him. I got the vibe that he was capitalizing off people's suffering by offering ways out via book. Same goes for T J because he didn't give a shit when I talked to him about my experiences. Kept on telling me to buy his book to get a better understanding of my illness.

You spoke with T J. How? Through email?

Would you be willing to PM me screenshots. I am curious about the whole interaction.
 
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Xerxes

Xerxes

Invisible
Nov 8, 2018
936
You spoke with Thomas Joiner. How? Through email?

Would you be willing to PM me screenshots. I am curious about the whole interaction.

Spoke through email several years ago. I'll see if I can find it again. I did one of those Joiner Lab workshop things for a $25 Amazon gift card, but the questions were basically on a scale of 1-5 how do you feel about 'x' certain things in your life. The following week they sent it again to see how you felt today. After that no questions were asked and the study was concluded.
 
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P

psychopomp

Member
Jun 19, 2018
20
Spoke through email several years ago. I'll see if I can find it again. I did one of those Joiner Lab workshop things for a $25 Amazon gift card, but the questions were basically on a scale of 1-5 how do you feel about 'x' certain things in your life. The following week they sent it again to see how you felt today. After that no questions were asked and the study was concluded.

Yeah keep me updated and message me private if you want about the emails.

Based on what you are saying, you emailed him in addition to doing these tests? How did you feel about the study, I remember the link floating around.

Do you feel it even captures suicidality or do you think the whole scale quantitative measures really take away from the experience of being suicidal and are more of a crude abstraction?
 
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Xerxes

Xerxes

Invisible
Nov 8, 2018
936
Yeah keep me updated and message me private if you want about the emails.

Based on what you are saying, you emailed him in addition to doing these tests? How did you feel about the study, I remember the link floating around.

Do you feel it even captures suicidality or do you think the whole scale quantitative measures really take away from the experience of being suicidal and are more of a crude abstraction?

I felt the test was something you give to those new to the world of psychology. I felt it was a crude abstraction and the more I read into their study, the more I felt that they wanted to create a new label or subcategory of diagnoses for suicide. The study brought up what they called ASAD (Acute Suicidal Affective Disturbance).

The test didnt allow users to discuss in detail about their feelings of why they're suicidal nor did they seek input on why I was suicidal and what caused me to calm down. They just wanted a number to compare to other responses.
 
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O

OfficerK

Experienced
May 6, 2018
255
That "gotta be over 50" thing always pissed me off too. That's fucked up that you was denied to one of their forums because of your age. Agism is a form of discrimination wether it's aimed at the eldelty or people younger than 50.
I'd imagine that greater society wouldn't be too pleased if an organization like his started offering advice to anyone who wanted to kill themselves. Exit is already facing enough resistance as it is. If I'm not mistaken, N. believes that any adult of "sound mind" should have access to a peaceful method of suicide.

And I do realize that I'm responding to an inactive user...
 
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WayOut

WayOut

Experienced
Oct 26, 2018
281
I'm beginning to lose respect for the man for other reasons I won't go into right now.
I never trusted him. I got the vibe that he was capitalizing off people's suffering by offering ways out via book.
Exit Int. is a not for profit, registered in The Netherlands. Funds come from donations and bequests. The Peaceful Pill Handbook is registered in the US. It is for profit. It is owned by PN's partner, Fiona. It is funded by subscriptions. Tens of thousands of new people subscribe each year now, as it is marketed aggressively in many countries. That's $millions per year. Private money, to do what they want with.

PN is a self publicity machine. The brains and push is from Fiona. Many media groups who have covered their various stunts report back about really atrocious, mercenary behavior when the cameras are off. They are not liked, particularly in their own country. The Aussies treat him like a bad joke. This annoys him, and every now and then he makes a lame, bleating complaint about it.

On the Exit forum, they recently had the begging bowl out to members to buy N from "Patrick" a "promising new lead". They wanted members to pay out the big bucks, get it tested, then send them the information. If it had turned out to be good, then the contact would have been whipped into an update of the PPeH, then onsold to new and repeat customers with the big drawcard of a new verified supplier, in the EU. They haven't bothered to update the thread definitively, after Patrick was outed on THIS forum, not theirs, as a scam.

SN is nothing more than a marketing exercise, cashing in on all the publicity from The Netherlands a year ago. It is NOT a peaceful way to go. It's just bullshit. Not that SN is necessarily an agonizing death, but there is no real evidence that it is even close to "peaceful".

In Australia, 20 years ago, PN did ground breaking work with new VE legislation. He was a fucking hero. In the last decade though, he has become angry and bitter. He is no longer a hero, and rubbishes any hard fought for legislative change with VE because legislation needs controls in place to stop abuse.

Now he is a borderline psychopath, and I don't say that flippantly. He and his inner team swan around the world, living it up in the best hotels, making money. He surrounds himself with sycophants, like a cult leader with mindless followers. His FB page is full of them, zombies liking every stupid post, praising and fucking worshipping him. It's just woeful.

You can join his FB page. Ask to be friended. Then you can get his attention if you want to ask a question. Post a reply to any of his frequent updates. If you don't get noticed, say something reasonable, but slightly negative. He will reply, or he will delete your question very quickly.

Btw, I was a supporter of PN years ago. I have been on his forum for years, quietly, as I mentioned when I first joined here. There are other Exit forum members who both post and/or lurk here. He went seriously off the rails about 7 years ago, when he was being pursued for his irresponsible behavior with young and vulnerable people on the forum. He was kicked out of his profession by the medical board of that country, and chased by the Feds in several countries, but managed to stay out of reach.

He is bad news. Anyone that is slightly suspicious of him is definitely on the right track.
 
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P

psychopomp

Member
Jun 19, 2018
20
I felt the test was something you give to those new to the world of psychology. I felt it was a crude abstraction and the more I read into their study, the more I felt that they wanted to create a new label or subcategory of diagnoses for suicide. The study brought up what they called ASAD (Acute Suicidal Affective Disturbance).

The test didnt allow users to discuss in detail about their feelings of why they're suicidal nor did they seek input on why I was suicidal and what caused me to calm down. They just wanted a number to compare to other responses.

I figured. I am critical of his work and a big suicidology buff in terms of research.

So I assume you were not able to locate the old emails with J. They would be of good use. Also do you have a discord? Would love to talk more about the subject if you are interested. I would PM you but my account doesn't have enough activity.

Did you know TJ believes 95-100% of suicides are mental illness. He wrote this in his 2010 book Myths About Suicide:

https://www.amazon.com/Myths-about-Suicide-T-J/dp/0674061985

He doesn't even cite any sources despite the fact that I do know where he is drawing the data from (ie psychological autopsy studies) as well as his own personal theory (2016 journal article pdf below):

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/69cc/9559bbce517e78ba8d6ca257efccbb11c278.pdf
 
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I

Idorus

Arcanist
Apr 30, 2018
426
On his weekly facebook streams PN Always finishes by giving his email (exitint at protonmail.com) for you to ask questions you wanna see addressed on his streams. I did it but got a personal answer back instead of being it addressed on stream. That was a surprise so it's worth trying this as well.

Apart from that I tried to contact him several times via mail on the exit site last year but nothing nothing nothing! (and fuk I put so much effort in those mails). Btw, my end-of-life counselor said in december last year that it wouldn't be a problem to become a member of exit under the age of 50 (no ID asked) but I guess things have changed…
 
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iHeartRockArt

iHeartRockArt

Wizard
Sep 21, 2018
608
I have edited this thread so that Dr. N's full name is not publicized. From now on, please only use initials when referring to specific doctors/medical personnel. Thank you.
 
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C

creationisdeath

Specialist
Oct 20, 2018
359
Exit Int. is a not for profit, registered in The Netherlands. Funds come from donations and bequests. The Peaceful Pill Handbook is registered in the US. It is for profit. It is owned by PN's partner, Fiona. It is funded by subscriptions. Tens of thousands of new people subscribe each year now, as it is marketed aggressively in many countries. That's $millions per year. Private money, to do what they want with.

PN is a self publicity machine. The brains and push is from Fiona. Many media groups who have covered their various stunts report back about really atrocious, mercenary behavior when the cameras are off. They are not liked, particularly in their own country. The Aussies treat him like a bad joke. This annoys him, and every now and then he makes a lame, bleating complaint about it.

On the Exit forum, they recently had the begging bowl out to members to buy N from "Patrick" a "promising new lead". They wanted members to pay out the big bucks, get it tested, then send them the information. If it had turned out to be good, then the contact would have been whipped into an update of the PPeH, then onsold to new and repeat customers with the big drawcard of a new verified supplier, in the EU. They haven't bothered to update the thread definitively, after Patrick was outed on THIS forum, not theirs, as a scam.

SN is nothing more than a marketing exercise, cashing in on all the publicity from The Netherlands a year ago. It is NOT a peaceful way to go. It's just bullshit. Not that SN is necessarily an agonizing death, but there is no real evidence that it is even close to "peaceful".

In Australia, 20 years ago, PN did ground breaking work with new VE legislation. He was a fucking hero. In the last decade though, he has become angry and bitter. He is no longer a hero, and rubbishes any hard fought for legislative change with VE because legislation needs controls in place to stop abuse.

Now he is a borderline psychopath, and I don't say that flippantly. He and his inner team swan around the world, living it up in the best hotels, making money. He surrounds himself with sycophants, like a cult leader with mindless followers. His FB page is full of them, zombies liking every stupid post, praising and fucking worshipping him. It's just woeful.

You can join his FB page. Ask to be friended. Then you can get his attention if you want to ask a question. Post a reply to any of his frequent updates. If you don't get noticed, say something reasonable, but slightly negative. He will reply, or he will delete your question very quickly.

Btw, I was a supporter of PN years ago. I have been on his forum for years, quietly, as I mentioned when I first joined here. There are other Exit forum members who both post and/or lurk here. He went seriously off the rails about 7 years ago, when he was being pursued for his irresponsible behavior with young and vulnerable people on the forum. He was kicked out of his profession by the medical board of that country, and chased by the Feds in several countries, but managed to stay out of reach.

He is bad news. Anyone that is slightly suspicious of him is definitely on the right track.
Thank you for pointing out how it's all about money.
Despicable.
 
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C

creationisdeath

Specialist
Oct 20, 2018
359
I agree partially, but end of the day PN didn't invent money. We're all in this same ugly rat race
People like that could just stop at a certain point. When you have enough to live comfortably and money is not an issue for you anymore, just stop man. They are truly free. They can choose to do whatever they please. Is it helping people or making even more money off them? Huge difference.

If I were a millionaire I'd be donating excess income. And I'm an asshole. But why not make some random guy happy by throwing him some cash? It's nothing to you anyway. There is no reason not to do it other than extreme egotism. At least don't rub it in everyone's faces.
Meanwhile they flaunt their cash like some undeserving "youtuber"; living large on other people's misery.

Sorry if this sounds aggressive, I just find that there are a million excuses for wealthy assholes all the time yet almost only accusations for those not lucky and/or shady enough. Being a rich asshole is celebrated by the poor classes, now that is insanity.. You all deserve the same quality of life.

If this were in some consumerist industry I'd shrug it off, but for god's sake why does it have to be like that even when it's about suicide.. Nothing is ever taboo when you can make money apparently.
 
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weedoge

weedoge

Banned
Jul 12, 2018
1,525
People like that could just stop at a certain point. When you have enough to live comfortably and money is not an issue for you anymore, just stop man. They are truly free. They can choose to do whatever they please. Is it helping people or making even more money off them? Huge difference.

If I were a millionaire I'd be donating excess income. And I'm an asshole. But why not make some random guy happy by throwing him some cash? It's nothing to you anyway. There is no reason not to do it other than extreme egotism. At least don't rub it in everyone's faces.
Meanwhile they flaunt their cash like some undeserving "youtuber"; living large on other people's misery.

Sorry if this sounds aggressive, I just find that there are a million excuses for wealthy assholes all the time yet almost only accusations for those not lucky and/or shady enough. Being a rich asshole is celebrated by the poor classes, now that is insanity.. You all deserve the same quality of life.

If this were in some consumerist industry I'd shrug it off, but for god's sake why does it have to be like that even when it's about suicide.. Nothing is ever taboo when you can make money apparently.
It's understandable. I know very little about PN but I just find it very hard to resent people who are possibly benefiting from suffering while still pushing a good cause. The world is bitter and sad and I don't have the capacity to be appropriately disgusted at everything so I'll reserve that for the most heinous shit. Or not. Idk wtf I'm talking about anymore it's all pointless lol, dw np though you're not aggressive
 
Johnnythefox

Johnnythefox

Que sera sera
Nov 11, 2018
3,129
I never trusted him. I got the vibe that he was capitalizing off people's suffering by offering ways out via book. Same goes for T. J. because he didn't give a shit when I talked to him about my experiences. Kept on telling me to buy his book to get a better understanding of my illness.
Has anyone ever thought that Dr N could be A? Or could maybe benefit financially from A?
 
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A

Arak

Enlightened
Sep 21, 2018
1,176
@Johnnythefox ,

That seems unlikely. It would put N at a huge risk.

Anyway, good thread. I distrust doctors. The age of 50 is not that unreasonable as a limit, he couldn't get away with selling his 'products' to teenagers. Irrespective of peoples' rights.
 
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WayOut

WayOut

Experienced
Oct 26, 2018
281
Has anyone ever thought that Dr N could be A? Or could maybe benefit financially from A?
No, he's definitely not A. And no, he doesn't directly benefit financially from A. There is no need for this. He benefits hugely from sales of the PPeH, which is indirectly from A, I suppose. He recently reported record sales of subscriptions. Years ago he reported sales in excess of 18,000 subscriptions, so since then with new annual records, you can safely assume his income in in the order of many millions a year. Private income that is, not Exit income, as Exit is a Not For Profit charity.
The age of 50 is not that unreasonable as a limit, he couldn't get away with selling his 'products' to teenagers. Irrespective of peoples' rights.
Yeah, true, but his "product" is the instructions and contact details for how to kill yourself. He's moving beyond standards of the right to choice, btw, into murky grounds of promoting death to anyone who feels like it. The opportunity for abuse is simply staggering, as is the potential harm this could do to vulnerable people. I don't see him as an idealist. His business is absolutely commercial. That is why he is always promoting the PPeH with regular, generally useless updates. He wants sales, he's not about an idealistic principle any more, as he was 20 years ago.
 
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Johnnythefox

Johnnythefox

Que sera sera
Nov 11, 2018
3,129
No, he's definitely not A. And no, he doesn't directly benefit financially from A. There is no need for this.
Yeah I was just being facetious...
 
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J

JustAboutDone

Illuminated
Jan 1, 2019
3,532
I miss WayOut. He called a spade a spade.
 
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C

Choice

Member
Feb 22, 2019
23
He called a spade a spade.
PN's a tool, sure, but it's a bit harsh to be so specific, imo. I mean, spades are used to dig holes. PN does so much more than just that. He is multifaceted and uber talented. A crowbar. A hammer. A screwdriver even.

Anyone can contact PN by joining his new forum, absolutely positively guaranteed scam free now. Just take a pic of your granny holding her pension card and pay with a throwaway card. I believe he's got a few new suppliers and is keen for members to order and try out the N. If it doesn't kill you, it may sweeten your coffee, so all good, right?
 
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J

JustAboutDone

Illuminated
Jan 1, 2019
3,532
PN's a tool, sure, but it's a bit harsh to be so specific, imo. I mean, spades are used to dig holes. PN does so much more than just that. He is multifaceted and uber talented. A crowbar. A hammer. A screwdriver even.

Anyone can contact PN by joining his new forum, absolutely positively guaranteed scam free now. Just take a pic of your granny holding her pension card and pay with a throwaway card. I believe he's got a few new suppliers and is keen for members to order and try out the N. If it doesn't kill you, it may sweeten your coffee, so all good, right?

Lmfao!!!!!!
 
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JJ-NOHOPE

JJ-NOHOPE

Tantalus - all desire, no hope
Nov 26, 2018
119
You can be bitter and judgmental all you like.

I am grateful to have my N in my closet. I wouldn't have it if it weren't for PPEH & PN. Or for SS for that matter.

I thank god for A, even though he makes lots of money and is clearly not purposely trying to help people.

These people aren't saints or demons. Just people, trying to make money.
 
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