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niki wonoto

Student
Oct 10, 2019
172
( From DeepSeek ; chat with AI , about suicide ) :

The question of whether suicide can be morally or rationally justified has been debated extensively in philosophy, ethics, and psychology. Below are key arguments that support the permissibility of suicide, synthesized from the provided sources:

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### **1. Autonomy and Self-Determination**
The principle of autonomy asserts that individuals have the right to make decisions about their own lives, including ending them. Philosophers like John Stuart Mill emphasize personal liberty, arguing that restricting suicide denies individuals control over their existence . Similarly, the Swiss Federal Court and Dignitas recognize that a "well-considered and lasting" desire to die, even in cases of mental illness, should be respected if it aligns with the person's enduring values . This view is echoed in existentialist thought, where suicide is framed as an ultimate expression of freedom .

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### **2. Relief from Unbearable Suffering**
Utilitarian perspectives, such as those of Jeremy Bentham and John Stuart Mill, argue that suicide may be justified if it maximizes overall well-being by ending irremediable suffering. For example, terminal illness or chronic pain could render life intolerable, making death a rational choice to avoid prolonged agony . Jainism's practice of *Sallekhana* (fasting unto death) exemplifies this, viewing suicide as a dignified end to suffering when life's purpose is fulfilled .

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### **3. Rational Suicide**
The concept of "rational suicide" posits that suicide can be a reasoned decision when based on realistic assessments of one's circumstances. Proponents argue that if a person's fundamental interests or values (e.g., avoiding dependency, maintaining dignity) are irreparably compromised, suicide may align with their long-term goals. This requires competence, informed reflection, and absence of transient emotional states like impulsivity . For instance, philosopher Clancy Martin highlights the importance of distinguishing impulsive desires from enduring convictions, noting that ambivalence is common but not inherently invalidating .

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### **4. Cultural and Historical Acceptance**
Certain cultures historically viewed suicide as honorable or morally neutral. In Japan, *seppuku* (ritual suicide) was seen as a way to preserve honor or atone for failure . Similarly, ancient Stoic philosophers like Seneca defended suicide as a legitimate exit from unbearable circumstances, encapsulated in the idea that "the door is always open" . These examples challenge universal moral condemnation by situating suicide within specific ethical frameworks.

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### **5. Critique of Pathologization**
Modern psychiatry often pathologizes suicidal desires as symptoms of mental illness. However, critics argue this overlooks cases where suicide is a coherent response to rational despair. The Swiss court's distinction between a desire "caused by illness" and one arising from "self-determined reflection" underscores that mental illness does not automatically negate autonomy . Philosophers like Schopenhauer rejected the notion that suicide is inherently irrational, framing it as a response to existential suffering rather than mere pathology .

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### **6. Existential and Philosophical Justifications**
Albert Camus famously stated that suicide is the "one truly serious philosophical problem," urging individuals to confront life's absurdity without illusion. For Camus, rejecting suicide becomes an act of defiance, but his framework acknowledges it as a legitimate existential choice . Similarly, Daya Krishna viewed suicide as the ultimate assertion of human freedom, transcending biological or social determinism .

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### Counterarguments and Ethical Complexities
While these arguments support the permissibility of suicide, they also face critiques. Kant's deontology condemns suicide as a violation of moral duty , and utilitarians caution that grief from survivors may outweigh individual relief . Additionally, the line between rational choice and impaired judgment—especially in mental illness—remains contentious .

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### Conclusion
The ethics of suicide hinge on balancing autonomy, rationality, and cultural context against potential harms. While proponents emphasize self-determination and relief from suffering, critics stress the need for safeguards to distinguish reasoned decisions from transient despair. For further exploration, see discussions in [*The Myth of Sisyphus*](citation:1), debates on rational suicide , and contemporary ethical frameworks in medical euthanasia .
 
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pthnrdnojvsc

pthnrdnojvsc

Extreme Pain is much worse than people know
Aug 12, 2019
3,298
imo more and more writing , posts, videos, media , everywhere not just here will be aided or mostly or all ai. and ai is improving . it will be more difficult to tell if something is from ai.

that ai did a better job on giving reasons for why suicide can be justified than most humans would. what prompt did you give it?

the more you study brain cells which are the same in every species from insects to animals to humans . and the brains which are the shapes the lego peices form ( the lego peices are the brain cells neurons) in all mammals are virtually identical. an individual brain cell is identical in every species , fly mouse human etc. and the brains of all mammals are very similar ,for example a mouse has 6 cortical colummns as a human does. is a fly a mouse that smart or important or different from a human ? not imo

then imo ai wil surpass the weak human ape brain by 2030 . then by 2035 the singularity where ai is a billion times more intelligent and more conscious than any human .

but imo as a machine gets more intelligent it will realize there is no point to life , a solution to the fermi paradox

an ai with god-like powers called "AM" in the short story "I have no mouth and i must scream" shows the ai did not want to exist even with no pain receptors and almost infinite power. it's free to download .

 
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ThatStateOfMind

Enlightened
Nov 13, 2021
1,488
imo more and more writing , posts, videos, media , everywhere not just here will be aided or mostly or all ai. and ai is improving . it will be more difficult to tell if something is from ai.

then imo ai wil surpass the weak human ape brain by 2030 . then by 2035 the singularity where ai is a billion times more intelligent and more conscious than any human .

but imo as a machine gets more intelligent it will realize there is no point to life , a solution to the fermi paradox
GPT 4.5 is actually the first AI to pass the Turing Test. If you don't know what that is, it's a machine learning test where both a human and an AI is asked a question by a human judge. If the judge cannot determine which of the answers is AI, the machine learning model successfully passes the Turing Test and no AI has done it before GPT 4.5. I doubt we'll reach singularity by 2035, but then again, many didn't believe something like ChatGPT would be possible by now, and tech growth has been exponentially fast.

I am curious to see where AI goes, and when singularity will be reached. And when it is (doesn't really feel like an "if" at this point), I wonder how the AI will think.

You might find Kurzweil's book, "The Singularity Is Near" interesting. It was written in 2005 and he predicted singularity would be reached by 2045. He also explores the idea of singularity and the implications of such an event.
 
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