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derpyderpins

derpyderpins

I was wrong
Sep 19, 2023
1,042
It's taken a long time, but I really don't get passionately angry at other people anymore. I rarely hate these days. Even if someone is opposed to me or doesn't like me or is rude, I don't hate them automatically and try to understand from their point of view.

But what I can't get rid of is the self hate. Every little thing: typos; hitting the curb driving; being 5 minutes late; dirty thoughts; saying something awkward; not speaking up; clumsiness around the house; forgetting to do things; wasting time; and, funny enough, feeling bad for myself . . . It all makes me hate myself more. It's the opposite of the advice I give others. I know it's wrong, but I can't practice what I preach. Add hypocrisy to the list.

If someone does me dirty, I can't be mad at them. I just hate myself for being naive or expecting more or being a pushover.

I just. . . Don't know. I know I have a great list of reasons on paper too feel good about me. I admire myself. I just don't like myself.

Any thoughts or advice?
 
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ImTelling

ImTelling

Sad Doggo
May 27, 2024
144
I'm in the same boat so I would feel like a silly billy if I tried to give advice but what I will say is I hope you find good advice and people who can support you as you deal with this self hatred. Sending love!
 
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S

Slough Walker

Member
Apr 22, 2024
28
It's taken a long time, but I really don't get passionately angry at other people anymore. I rarely hate these days. Even if someone is opposed to me or doesn't like me or is rude, I don't hate them automatically and try to understand from their point of view.

But what I can't get rid of is the self hate. Every little thing: typos; hitting the curb driving; being 5 minutes late; dirty thoughts; saying something awkward; not speaking up; clumsiness around the house; forgetting to do things; wasting time; and, funny enough, feeling bad for myself . . . It all makes me hate myself more. It's the opposite of the advice I give others. I know it's wrong, but I can't practice what I preach. Add hypocrisy to the list.

If someone does me dirty, I can't be mad at them. I just hate myself for being naive or expecting more or being a pushover.

I just. . . Don't know. I know I have a great list of reasons on paper too feel good about me. I admire myself. I just don't like myself.

Any thoughts or advice?
Serious reply: Suppose you had an identical twin that was with you 24x7. Someone exactly like you was always there with you. Would you still feel and notice the automatic critic as often or with the same intensity?

I relate to your description of your experience. I believe that my automatic critic powered by my misfiring amygdala has barely changed after years of hard work and some achievements. This belief is the primary reason I'm on this site. I'd eagerly and happily forfeit all hope and expectations for love, friendship, and greater achievement just to be rid of the automatic critic. Even the very few therapists who believe that we actually can resolve all of our traumas and love ourselves completely don't have a strong argument for why this is so.

I reflect on the quote attributed to Frederick Douglass: "It is easier to grow strong children than to heal broken adults." To extend the metaphor, the rings of the tree always show the tree's trauma. You see in its rings the ways in which the tree was traumatized and how each year the tree grew out and around its scars.
 
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lost_ange2211

lost_ange2211

An angel who wants to go home..
May 29, 2024
107
I remember a session of a group therapy. One of the patients also struggled a lot with deep self hate. When the psychologist said that every feeling/ emotion is there for a reason she got a bit sarcastic. But then he explained:

Self hate is there as a protection strategy for yourself, you probably developed as a kid, in your young age. If you hate yourself, more than anyone else can do - you can never get hated by someone else.

I don't know if you can understand that or if it makes sense to you. Self hate is one of the most destructive and deepest feelings there is and I'm sorry you have to deal with it.
 
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Dr Iron Arc

Dr Iron Arc

Into the Unknown
Feb 10, 2020
19,999
I'm like the last guy to get advice from. I thought the answer was in finding a romantic partner and indeed I still have enough delusion power to feel that could be the case for me but if it's not working for you I'm not sure what's left.
 
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Akanea

Akanea

Student
May 24, 2023
142
I'm like the last guy to get advice from. I thought the answer was in finding a romantic partner and indeed I still have enough delusion power to feel that could be the case for me but if it's not working for you I'm not sure what's left.
You just go from hating yourself alone to hating yourself in a relationship, if you try to build your self worth with the eyes of someone else it will not work, and you end up being a burden, expecting your partner to "fix" you. It's not fair for them I think. It certainly didn't work for me.
Making friends was way more helpful than finding a lover for my self hatred issues.
 
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Dr Iron Arc

Dr Iron Arc

Into the Unknown
Feb 10, 2020
19,999
You just go from hating yourself alone to hating yourself in a relationship, if you try to build your self worth with the eyes of someone else it will not work, and you end up being a burden, expecting your partner to "fix" you. It's not fair for them I think. It certainly didn't work for me.
Making friends was way more helpful than finding a lover for my self hatred issues.
I already have lots of friends and have had zero lovers. The one time I got close to having one was also the closest I ever got to not hating myself which is why it's the only lead I have in this quest to find the cure to self hatred. Having friends didn't do anything to make me hate myself less unfortunately.
 
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derpyderpins

derpyderpins

I was wrong
Sep 19, 2023
1,042
Serious reply: Suppose you had an identical twin that was with you 24x7. Someone exactly like you was always there with you. Would you still feel and notice the automatic critic as often or with the same intensity?

I relate to your description of your experience. I believe that my automatic critic powered by my misfiring amygdala has barely changed after years of hard work and some achievements. This belief is the primary reason I'm on this site. I'd eagerly and happily forfeit all hope and expectations for love, friendship, and greater achievement just to be rid of the automatic critic. Even the very few therapists who believe that we actually can resolve all of our traumas and love ourselves completely don't have a strong argument for why this is so.

I reflect on the quote attributed to Frederick Douglass: "It is easier to grow strong children than to heal broken adults." To extend the metaphor, the rings of the tree always show the tree's trauma. You see in its rings the ways in which the tree was traumatized and how each year the tree grew out and around its scars.
I can't really answer for an identical twin, because I'd see myself in them, but I know I wouldn't be as critical for someone else.

I remember a session of a group therapy. One of the patients also struggled a lot with deep self hate. When the psychologist said that every feeling/ emotion is there for a reason she got a bit sarcastic. But then he explained:

Self hate is there as a protection strategy for yourself, you probably developed as a kid, in your young age. If you hate yourself, more than anyone else can do - you can never get hated by someone else.

I don't know if you can understand that or if it makes sense to you. Self hate is one of the most destructive and deepest feelings there is and I'm sorry you have to deal with it.
That's helpful and makes sense. Thanks. I guess I knew it was a defense mechanism but that explanation is one I hadn't thought of. Like I am setting the bar so purposefully low so I never have to have that disappointment of being unable to clear it.
 
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derpyderpins

derpyderpins

I was wrong
Sep 19, 2023
1,042
You just go from hating yourself alone to hating yourself in a relationship, if you try to build your self worth with the eyes of someone else it will not work, and you end up being a burden, expecting your partner to "fix" you. It's not fair for them I think. It certainly didn't work for me.
Making friends was way more helpful than finding a lover for my self hatred issues.
@Dr Iron Arc I'll say this is absolutely right in that you shouldn't expect someone to fix you or magically make everything better, but for me I do prefer the support of a significant other over a friend because you are becoming partners in life. I like that consistency of 'this person will be there for me every night.' Obviously that's way down the road from a first date, though. I guess my point is don't give up on it, just don't count on it to be a magic fix.
 
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Dr Iron Arc

Dr Iron Arc

Into the Unknown
Feb 10, 2020
19,999
@Dr Iron Arc I'll say this is absolutely right in that you shouldn't expect someone to fix you or magically make everything better, but for me I do prefer the support of a significant other over a friend because you are becoming partners in life. I like that consistency of 'this person will be there for me every night.' Obviously that's way down the road from a first date, though. I guess my point is don't give up on it, just don't count on it to be a magic fix.
It's not that I'm counting on it to magically fix everything for me, it's more that I'm counting on it to magically give me the urge to fix things for myself that just isn't there.
 
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derpyderpins

derpyderpins

I was wrong
Sep 19, 2023
1,042
It's not that I'm counting on it to magically fix everything for me, it's more that I'm counting on it to magically give me the urge to fix things for myself that just isn't there.
You and I are similar that way, and I'm sorry it hasn't worked out for you. One of the only things that gets me through the day is living for her, because at least I'm helping someone else who's worth a damn. If I can make her life a little better then mine isn't so shit. Part of that is that I can't let myself fall apart.
 
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_AllCatsAreGrey_

_AllCatsAreGrey_

(they/he)
Mar 4, 2024
171
It's taken a long time, but I really don't get passionately angry at other people anymore. I rarely hate these days. Even if someone is opposed to me or doesn't like me or is rude, I don't hate them automatically and try to understand from their point of view.

But what I can't get rid of is the self hate. Every little thing: typos; hitting the curb driving; being 5 minutes late; dirty thoughts; saying something awkward; not speaking up; clumsiness around the house; forgetting to do things; wasting time; and, funny enough, feeling bad for myself . . . It all makes me hate myself more. It's the opposite of the advice I give others. I know it's wrong, but I can't practice what I preach. Add hypocrisy to the list.

If someone does me dirty, I can't be mad at them. I just hate myself for being naive or expecting more or being a pushover.

I just. . . Don't know. I know I have a great list of reasons on paper too feel good about me. I admire myself. I just don't like myself.

Any thoughts or advice?
I have huge difficulties with negative self talk, so I relate to this a lot.

Something that's been helpful for me is the lens of Internal Family Systems, which is a parts work modality. In that modality one can see that the part that is highly self critical is working to protect and manage the system. It's trying to help. It also gives space for the part that is hurt by this harsh method, often a wounded child part.

I haven't been very successful in quieting the loud and harsh part, but I find I've been able to develop nurturing parts that can reassure the sensitive parts that are hurt by it that they're just trying to help.

I don't know if that makes any sense, but it's been helpful for me.

An IFS diagram, 'cause I love infographics:
Word image 1
 
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derpyderpins

derpyderpins

I was wrong
Sep 19, 2023
1,042
I have huge difficulties with negative self talk, so I relate to this a lot.

Something that's been helpful for me is the lens of Internal Family Systems, which is a parts work modality. In that modality one can see that the part that is highly self critical is working to protect and manage the system. It's trying to help. It also gives space for the part that is hurt by this harsh method, often a wounded child part.

I haven't been very successful in quieting the loud and harsh part, but I find I've been able to develop nurturing parts that can reassure the sensitive parts that are hurt by it that they're just trying to help.

I don't know if that makes any sense, but it's been helpful for me.

An IFS diagram, 'cause I love infographics:
View attachment 141621
I was not familiar with IFS, but this is really interesting. Thank you. I'll have to read a bit more.
 
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_AllCatsAreGrey_

_AllCatsAreGrey_

(they/he)
Mar 4, 2024
171
I was not familiar with IFS, but this is really interesting. Thank you. I'll have to read a bit more.
Nice! If you're interested to read a book on it, I'd suggest "No Bad Parts" by Dr. Schwartz. It provides some theory and also some practical exercises. PDFs are easily available.

Many moons ago another SaSu member and I were thinking to make a study group around the book...
 
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K

kyhoti

Member
May 27, 2024
49
First off, in the spirit of honest disclosure, I'm a dispicable fellow, actually deserving of scorn (or worse) for the shit I've done over the decades.

That being said, I am currently working on the spiritual principle of forgiveness. I am slowly coming to realize that I am simply human, with the ability to completely fuck things up on a regular basis. Just like every other person on the planet. Self-forgiveness is a far-off target; where I'm at is trying to give myself the grace that I offer other people.

The only reason I am actively pursuing this path is to clean up my side of the street as best as possible before I CTB. So, my two cents is, if you want some relief, study up on the principles of forgiveness and grace. Oh, and it's fucking DIFFICULT, so be prepared to feel some discomfort as you boil yourself emotionally raw in the task. At least, thats been my experience with it.
 
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A

Aloneandinpain

Student
Dec 25, 2023
110
I would definitely love myself far more if I had a romantic partner.

The way I end up viewing things is that if no one ever wants me, then therefore I'm worthless.

I know this isn't true, but I want to share my life with someone and experience love. Therefore any constant rejection means I am effectively worthless in the sense that no one ever sees, notices or accepts me as someone they want to be with.
 
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K

kyhoti

Member
May 27, 2024
49
To add to the thread, this was in my daily reading, and I think it speaks to the OP as well:
June 04, 2024​
Build, don't destroy​

"Our negative sense of self has been replaced by a positive concern for others."
Basic Text, p. 16
Spreading gossip feeds a dark hunger in us. Sometimes we think the only way we can feel good about ourselves is to make someone else look bad by comparison. But the kind of self-esteem that can be purchased at another's expense is hollow and not worth the price.

How, then, do we deal with our negative sense of self? Simple. We replace it with a positive concern for others. Rather than dwell on our low self-esteem, we turn to those around us and seek to be of service to them.

This may seem to be a way of avoiding the issue, but it's not. There's nothing we can do by dwelling on our low sense of self except work ourselves into a stew of self-pity. But by replacing our self-pity with active, loving concern for others, we become the kind of people we can respect.

The way to build our self-esteem is not to tear others down, but to build them up through love and positive concern. To help us with this, we can ask ourselves if we are contributing to the problem or to the solution. Today, we can choose to build instead of destroy.
Just for Today: Though I may be feeling low, I don't need to tear someone down to build myself up. Today, I will replace my negative sense of self with a positive concern for others. I will build, not destroy.
 
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derpyderpins

derpyderpins

I was wrong
Sep 19, 2023
1,042
To add to the thread, this was in my daily reading, and I think it speaks to the OP as well:
June 04, 2024​
Build, don't destroy​
"Our negative sense of self has been replaced by a positive concern for others."​
Basic Text, p. 16​
Spreading gossip feeds a dark hunger in us. Sometimes we think the only way we can feel good about ourselves is to make someone else look bad by comparison. But the kind of self-esteem that can be purchased at another's expense is hollow and not worth the price.

How, then, do we deal with our negative sense of self? Simple. We replace it with a positive concern for others. Rather than dwell on our low self-esteem, we turn to those around us and seek to be of service to them.

This may seem to be a way of avoiding the issue, but it's not. There's nothing we can do by dwelling on our low sense of self except work ourselves into a stew of self-pity. But by replacing our self-pity with active, loving concern for others, we become the kind of people we can respect.

The way to build our self-esteem is not to tear others down, but to build them up through love and positive concern. To help us with this, we can ask ourselves if we are contributing to the problem or to the solution. Today, we can choose to build instead of destroy.​
Just for Today: Though I may be feeling low, I don't need to tear someone down to build myself up. Today, I will replace my negative sense of self with a positive concern for others. I will build, not destroy.​
I like it, and I try to counter my self-hate by being more patient and forgiving to others, it just doesn't work to make me feel better about my inability to be reasonably productive.
 
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K

kyhoti

Member
May 27, 2024
49
Its about intentionality. Being kind or forgiving others is one thing; I can do that in my head, as a thought exercise. But physically doing something to help out, building, is a different animal.

Listen, grab a trashbag, go out in the street by where you live and pick up litter for an hour. Be safe, wear blaze orange and gloves etc. Plan this shit out. Put it on your calendar, then do it. If you struggle to make it happen, pretend you're out looking for "street treasure". When you've finished, you HAVE helped to make the world better. See how you feel ( ALL feelings). I'm curious if it has the same effect on you as it has on me.
 
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DefinitelyReady

DefinitelyReady

Why, do the birds, go on singing??
Mar 14, 2024
673
I remember a session of a group therapy. One of the patients also struggled a lot with deep self hate. When the psychologist said that every feeling/ emotion is there for a reason she got a bit sarcastic. But then he explained:

Self hate is there as a protection strategy for yourself, you probably developed as a kid, in your young age. If you hate yourself, more than anyone else can do - you can never get hated by someone else.

I don't know if you can understand that or if it makes sense to you. Self hate is one of the most destructive and deepest feelings there is and I'm sorry you have to deal with it.
When I was hospitalized at 12, I remember walking into this "group therapy" crap, and the woman asked why I was, like what is my problem I deal with. I didn't know what to say. You didn't hear about depression/anxiety then. I just said, "Self-hatred." and sat down. A lot of the girls looked confused, because they didn't know what that meant, and an older one said, "She hates herself."

If someone told me that every feeling, including the self- hatred, was there for a reason, back then I would've been polite. Now I'd give a sarcastic response... like the previous dude said, no one has advice for this. I guess it'll never go away fully for most. However maybe if they can find a solid group of supportive friends/family, and an active whatever sort of life, you'll be less alone with it. Therefore you'll focus on it less and it will have less of an impact and not define you in the eyes of yourself, and how you perceive others seeing you. That's about all I got. Obviously I never found the secret. Even if we hadn't made whatever mistakes, we'd still find another reason to be dissatisfied with ourselves and confirm why we failed as people, essentially why we still hate ourselves.

"Life sucks! Get it?!?! HAHAHA🤣!!!" (sarcasm)
I would definitely love myself far more if I had a romantic partner.

The way I end up viewing things is that if no one ever wants me, then therefore I'm worthless.

I know this isn't true, but I want to share my life with someone and experience love. Therefore any constant rejection means I am effectively worthless in the sense that no one ever sees, notices or accepts me as someone they want to be with.
But you can't base your opinion of yourself based upon a romantic interest's love. That'll lead to co-dependency and like end up just always finding toxic, tumultuous, and abusive relationships. If you're not okay on your own, it's not wise to be with someone else.

Some are going to be essentially single the rest of their lives... Does that mean they're unlovable? Unworthy? No...
First off, in the spirit of honest disclosure, I'm a dispicable fellow, actually deserving of scorn (or worse) for the shit I've done over the decades.

That being said, I am currently working on the spiritual principle of forgiveness. I am slowly coming to realize that I am simply human, with the ability to completely fuck things up on a regular basis. Just like every other person on the planet. Self-forgiveness is a far-off target; where I'm at is trying to give myself the grace that I offer other people.

The only reason I am actively pursuing this path is to clean up my side of the street as best as possible before I CTB. So, my two cents is, if you want some relief, study up on the principles of forgiveness and grace. Oh, and it's fucking DIFFICULT, so be prepared to feel some discomfort as you boil yourself emotionally raw in the task. At least, thats been my experience with it.
*Boil yourself emotionally raw*
🤣😅😂🤣🤣😂😅

Even though I scrub my skin off in showers, burn my hands when I wash them, I still find that funny.
I have huge difficulties with negative self talk, so I relate to this a lot.

Something that's been helpful for me is the lens of Internal Family Systems, which is a parts work modality. In that modality one can see that the part that is highly self critical is working to protect and manage the system. It's trying to help. It also gives space for the part that is hurt by this harsh method, often a wounded child part.

I haven't been very successful in quieting the loud and harsh part, but I find I've been able to develop nurturing parts that can reassure the sensitive parts that are hurt by it that they're just trying to help.

I don't know if that makes any sense, but it's been helpful for me.

An IFS diagram, 'cause I love infographics:
View attachment 141621
I remember in school as a kid, maybe a counselor, saw me reading a book on family alcoholism, and he printed out a sheet with a cartoon drawing of a family, and it had descriptions on the characters of the family, and he circled one that said "scapegoat" and told me to read on that part in particular. Strange.
 
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thenamingofcats

annihilation anxiety
Apr 19, 2024
453
My belief on self hate is that it's usually learned in the family system (or whatever system you grew up in) very young like elementary school age. Some people get the message that they're bad, wrong, dumb, etc and turn it inward and then others go narcissistic and turn it outward.
 
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