Help Can N be injected intramuscularly?

[spanishguy22]

I was thinking of injecting myself while a plastic bag is on me so I can make sure I die in the odd chance N didn't kill me.

It seems risky to hurry putting bag after drinking so I wanted to know if IM injection is effective. I imagine more than drinking it but less than IV but want to confirm

 

[Mud.]

You're talking about liquid N. in 100 ml bottles?

You wouldn't make it to a lethal dose.
You'd be asleep long, long before you could inject enough.

 

[woodstacker]

I can say it doesn't make sense to me going IM. It's like choosing to ride your car on the dirt easement next to the freeway (with trees & brushes) as opposed to taking the "efficient, circulatory pathway, which'll deliver the medication via the "freeway (arterial system)." It'll take a while for N to be absorbed from the muscles to the venules, arteries .... yada. Gonna waste meds being stuck in "limbo."

 

[Stan]

I was thinking of injecting myself while a plastic bag is on me so I can make sure I die in the odd chance N didn't kill me.

I don't know this but I would be concerned that you could become unconscious before administering the lethal dose in total. you would need to be hooked up to a fast infusion drip in my opinion. Injecting anything reacts so much quicker than ingesting. If you have ever been under general anaesthetic, you know that ask you to count backwards from 100, I have never reached 97

 

[spanishguy22]

I don't know this but I would be concerned that you could become unconscious before administering the lethal dose in total. you would need to be hooked up to a fast infusion drip in my opinion. Injecting anything reacts so much quicker than ingesting. If you have ever been under general anaesthetic, you know that ask you to count backwards from 100, I have never reached 97

I vaguely thought about that hoping it wouldn't be the case but yeah you're right. Will need to keep brainstorming then and I'll look up the drip thingy. Thanks mate

 

[gingerplum]

If you have the right dose, ie enough, and you're using it IV there's no way you'll be able to put a bag over your head, and you won't need it. As soon as it starts to hit your system, you'll be out. PM me if you have questions about IV set up or anything else.

 

[Stan]

Found this video. Actually has the footage of him taking N orally with a nice whisky chaser, looks very peaceful

7.30

www.abc.net.au

 

[spanishguy22]

Found this video. Actually has the footage of him taking N orally with a nice whisky chaser, looks very peaceful

7.30

www.abc.net.au

So peaceful yeah...

 

[woodstacker]

If you have the right dose, ie enough, and you're using it IV there's no way you'll be able to put a bag over your head, and you won't need it. As soon as it starts to hit your system, you'll be out. PM me if you have questions about IV set up or anything else.

How are pm's done here?
Second question: What are your thoughts on Fentanyl Patch Exits? Seems like it was a "professionally based choice" of a Pleasant Hills, CA pharmacist with a beer. Jamey Phillip Sheets, 32 Pleasant Hill, CA used Six 100mcg Patches on his neck and chest; and apparently relaxed with a beer. I would think that he made his decisions on several factors, the first being that he had enough time to exit. And secondly that the dosage was strong enough.

Druggist used pain patches to end his life / Walnut Creek...

Despondent that he was facing punishment for a fatal meningitis outbreak last year that...

www.sfgate.com

And there is a story of a 15 year old's unsuccessful Fen attempt: http://www.thepoisonreview.com/2012...rdose-dont-let-the-pharmacokinetics-fool-you/
Interesting.

 

[gingerplum]

How are pm's done here?
Second question: What are your thoughts on Fentanyl Patch Exits? Seems like it was a "professionally based choice" of a Pleasant Hills, CA pharmacist with a beer. Jamey Phillip Sheets, 32 Pleasant Hill, CA used Six 100mcg Patches on his neck and chest; and apparently relaxed with a beer. I would think that he made his decisions on several factors, the first being that he had enough time to exit. And secondly that the dosage was strong enough.

Druggist used pain patches to end his life / Walnut Creek...

Despondent that he was facing punishment for a fatal meningitis outbreak last year that...

www.sfgate.com

And there is a story of a 15 year old's unsuccessful Fen attempt: http://www.thepoisonreview.com/2012...rdose-dont-let-the-pharmacokinetics-fool-you/
Interesting.

Third, he was a pharmacist that had access to Fentanyl patches, which are about as easy to get as weapons-grade plutonium.

Three bars at screen top left; tap on that, then the envelope icon. Start to enter a member's username to PM and it will autopopulate.

 

[woodstacker]

Third, he was a pharmacist that had access to Fentanyl patches, which are about as easy to get as weapons-grade plutonium.

Three bars at screen top left; tap on that, then the envelope icon. Start to enter a member's username to PM and it will autopopulate.

gingerplum TY for your quick knowlegeablt reply.
I would think he kept the neck patches near and vertical with the carotid artery & sinus. And probably knowing the physiology of the medication, he understood that his goal was to target the cranium. As opposed to the 15 y.o. apparently, someone found her within that "window of efficacy to revive."

stacy

 

[dysphoria]

Intramuscular is very different to intravenous, and doesn't seem to have been explored much for pentobarbital. Plenty is known about other drugs though, like benzos, ketamine, etc.

"Pentobarbital can be administered intraperitoneally or intravenously. When used as a general anesthetic, pentobarbital can be administered as a bolus (Borkowski et al., 1990) or CRI. Commercial solutions commonly contain propylene glycol, which can cause pain upon injection and thrombophlebitis. For this reason, the subcutaneous and intramuscular routes of injection are not recommended. "

Pentobarbital - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

www.sciencedirect.com

This kind of literature is designed for doses that are tiny in comparison to a lethal dose; these could be administered in one small IV shot, while the 12g dose could not.

The commercial bottles of veterinary pentobarbital contain propylene glycol, mentioned in the quote. 100mL is a very large amount to inject, and it's theoretically possible to do, just very difficult unless you are trained in doing this. The onset of most drugs through intramuscular injection is 5-15 minutes, compared to seconds for intravenous. I'm not convinced that gives you enough time, since intramuscular injections are slow and you'd possibly need to cycle through different muscles (maybe have like 5 syringes ready to depress) to get that much inside yourself in a short period of time. Intramuscular gives you more time than going straight for a vein, but getting 100mL in your muscles in such a short period of time is going to require a lot of practise and anatomical knowledge. Technically the drug can be administered intramuscular, intravenous, by mouth, and even rectally, but there's not much reason to pursue anything other than drinking as liquid. IV could work with a slow drip, but you could dislodge the needle or do something else wrong. You're not going to inject 100mL in one plunge of the syringe without falling asleep before it's all in, unless you inject so fast that you destroy the tissue painfully.

As for the question about bags, my curiosity here is whether using one would actually make the N more likely to fail. N needs time to absorb to a lethal dose, and a small bag will run out of oxygen before that time has fully passed. Vomiting could be a result of oxygen deprivation/suffocation, and you could vomit up the liquid which hasn't made its way into your bloodstream yet. A bag with time-delayed flow of nitrogen would be another story though, and the ideal would be to take N then have your oxygen removed after an hour to ensure death, although this is overkill for most people but would be the kind of thing I'd hope to see in medicine in 20 years.

It's good to be curious, and I'm not a medical professional, but it seems like introducing points of failure in the procedure that are unnecessary, and if you rig up some drip system, it'd be a lot harder for anyone around you to claim ignorance about your plans. As pure powder, it's a very small drink then you go to sleep about 10 minutes later, and die within the next hour or two completely unaware of suffocation. Apart from vomiting it's all guaranteed, and all the guides suggest antiemetics. Even cannabis would not interact with N or antiemetics, and would be fine to use for nausea on top of everything else. The drink isn't very big, less than a shot glass I think. There are ways to numb your mouth, tongue and throat too.

 

[spanishguy22]

Intramuscular is very different to intravenous, and doesn't seem to have been explored much for pentobarbital. Plenty is known about other drugs though, like benzos, ketamine, etc.

"Pentobarbital can be administered intraperitoneally or intravenously. When used as a general anesthetic, pentobarbital can be administered as a bolus (Borkowski et al., 1990) or CRI. Commercial solutions commonly contain propylene glycol, which can cause pain upon injection and thrombophlebitis. For this reason, the subcutaneous and intramuscular routes of injection are not recommended. "

Pentobarbital - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

www.sciencedirect.com

This kind of literature is designed for doses that are tiny in comparison to a lethal dose; these could be administered in one small IV shot, while the 12g dose could not.

The commercial bottles of veterinary pentobarbital contain propylene glycol, mentioned in the quote. 100mL is a very large amount to inject, and it's theoretically possible to do, just very difficult unless you are trained in doing this. The onset of most drugs through intramuscular injection is 5-15 minutes, compared to seconds for intravenous. I'm not convinced that gives you enough time, since intramuscular injections are slow and you'd possibly need to cycle through different muscles (maybe have like 5 syringes ready to depress) to get that much inside yourself in a short period of time. Intramuscular gives you more time than going straight for a vein, but getting 100mL in your muscles in such a short period of time is going to require a lot of practise and anatomical knowledge. Technically the drug can be administered intramuscular, intravenous, by mouth, and even rectally, but there's not much reason to pursue anything other than drinking as liquid. IV could work with a slow drip, but you could dislodge the needle or do something else wrong. You're not going to inject 100mL in one plunge of the syringe without falling asleep before it's all in, unless you inject so fast that you destroy the tissue painfully.

As for the question about bags, my curiosity here is whether using one would actually make the N more likely to fail. N needs time to absorb to a lethal dose, and a small bag will run out of oxygen before that time has fully passed. Vomiting could be a result of oxygen deprivation/suffocation, and you could vomit up the liquid which hasn't made its way into your bloodstream yet. A bag with time-delayed flow of nitrogen would be another story though, and the ideal would be to take N then have your oxygen removed after an hour to ensure death, although this is overkill for most people but would be the kind of thing I'd hope to see in medicine in 20 years.

It's good to be curious, and I'm not a medical professional, but it seems like introducing points of failure in the procedure that are unnecessary, and if you rig up some drip system, it'd be a lot harder for anyone around you to claim ignorance about your plans. As pure powder, it's a very small drink then you go to sleep about 10 minutes later, and die within the next hour or two completely unaware of suffocation. Apart from vomiting it's all guaranteed, and all the guides suggest antiemetics. Even cannabis would not interact with N or antiemetics, and would be fine to use for nausea on top of everything else. The drink isn't very big, less than a shot glass I think. There are ways to numb your mouth, tongue and throat too.

That was an amazing answer thanks a lot. if I think of anything ill ask but yeah I pretty much agree on everything i think.

im just not confident of using only one method. Kind of paranoid but its my life im playing with.

 

[Stan]

If I was doing the two method, I would probably do SN and inert gas as at a fundamental level its doing the same job of getting oxygen out of your bloodstream

 

[spanishguy22]

If I was doing the two method, I would probably do SN and inert gas as at a fundamental level its doing the same job of getting oxygen out of your bloodstream

Ill do DNP instead of SN. got both but dnp is just as lethal with very low dose (3g) and no antidote.

 

[Stan]

I thought DNP was quite a painful way to go or are you hoping the N knocks you out first?

 

[spanishguy22]

I thought DNP was quite a painful way to go or are you hoping the N knocks you out first?

Yeah I would need something to knock me out, F, N, inert...
I mean the option is there to take it solo, but id only do it if there was no other way

 

[dysphoria]

Fentanyl or any other opioid is going to cause crazy nausea and vomiting at overdose, wouldn't count on any antiemetic to hold that back. Best not to combine any opioid with N due to the nausea factor. If you want something to increase and speed up the effects then an OD of benzodiazepine at the same time would augment N without nausea, and you could take a small amount before the main event to calm your nerves too. Alcohol is best avoided as part of any N combination, except for small amounts, due to the nausea. I don't know whether DNP or SN can cause nausea and vomiting but it seems so, and these are the kind of unpleasant ends that people are paying a premium to avoid. They may kick in before N too, ruining your final moments. If you're going to use N, then unless you can't get hold of enough, adding other things is more likely to decrease the likelihood of death rather than increase it. If you need something to knock you out then N does exactly that, and quickly. If you wanted to control the moment you lose consciousness, you could take the drink then IV some in addition, and you'd fall asleep instantly. Or inject a benzo, same result, and both without putting your stomach contents at risk.

 

[spanishguy22]

Fentanyl or any other opioid is going to cause crazy nausea and vomiting at overdose, wouldn't count on any antiemetic to hold that back. Best not to combine any opioid with N due to the nausea factor. If you want something to increase and speed up the effects then an OD of benzodiazepine at the same time would augment N without nausea, and you could take a small amount before the main event to calm your nerves too. Alcohol is best avoided as part of any N combination, except for small amounts, due to the nausea. I don't know whether DNP or SN can cause nausea and vomiting but it seems so, and these are the kind of unpleasant ends that people are paying a premium to avoid. They may kick in before N too, ruining your final moments. If you're going to use N, then unless you can't get hold of enough, adding other things is more likely to decrease the likelihood of death rather than increase it. If you need something to knock you out then N does exactly that, and quickly. If you wanted to control the moment you lose consciousness, you could take the drink then IV some in addition, and you'd fall asleep instantly. Or inject a benzo, same result, without putting your stomach contents at risk.

Wouldnt a massive dose of fentanyl IV or snorted cause unconsciousness too quick to even start vomiting?
DNP causes vomiting about 30 minutes to 2 hours after intake from all reports Ive read of fatal toxicity, so Id have ample time in that department.
What benzo do you recommend to lose consciousness fast? It would be best injected than ingested, so as to not vomit right?
thanks!

 

[dysphoria]

Wouldnt a massive dose of fentanyl IV or snorted cause unconsciousness too quick to even start vomiting?
DNP causes vomiting about 30 minutes to 2 hours after intake from all reports Ive read of fatal toxicity, so Id have ample time in that department.
What benzo do you recommend to lose consciousness fast? It would be best injected than ingested, so as to not vomit right?
thanks!

In its onset, it'd go through all phases of opioid action, from mild pain relief to intense euphoria, to nausea, vomiting and panic, then some degree of unconsciousness, then slowed breathing and suffocation/aspiration of vomit - just very quickly if in a massive overdose, especially IV. People still vomit when they're unconscious, so I think that's something to expect with a sufficiently high overdose. So I think the answer to that question would be to not use opioids in any scenario where vomiting is a problem.

Even though people fall asleep within minutes of drinking the liquid, the timeframe I've read for death from N seems to place most people around the 1-2 hour range for death, although some linger longer and that data is mostly from frail, old, terminally ill people, not from general population. You really need to not disturb your gut for that time, for it to have the full effect. DNP causes vomiting, and also apparently raises metabolism which is counter to the goal of barbiturate overdose - I wouldn't take that risk personally.

I've never injected a benzo, but hospitals seem to use midazolam often for procedures, and sometimes diazepam, both fairly typical. There's very little difference between them, other than some are more sedating at equivalent doses and some more calming, and the pharmacological and chemical properties which affect their solubility, absorption, distribution, metabolism, etc. Diazepam has to be supplied with propylene glycol because of solubility problems, I believe. Unless you can get pure powder, extracting from pills requires some knowledge and many benzos are not very water soluble, and their absorption from various routes of administration varies. If it's something you want to do, drug forums are most likely to have the information on preparing and using this way. Benzos aren't likely to make you vomit, if they were in a concentrated enough solution then they could be taken with the N. Not before though, as you'd just fall asleep...

 

[Stan]

I really like your posts @dysphoria . Well informed and factual