Being independent

[Makko]

I'm not sure if I'm the only one slow on the uptake here, but I only realised the practical meaning of the term "independence" a few years ago. Previously, I took for granted that it means doing everything in life by yourself. When put that way, independence sounds ridiculously hard, like something only a natural-born Robinson Crusoe would be able to do. It would have to mean spending all your waking time doing absolutely necessary work, and if you stumble once, you're screwed. In that light, the thought of having to be "independent" was pretty daunting.

Turned out I've had everything backwards. Independence is not about stopping to rely on people, but about spreading your reliance as thinly as possible. It's like those "funny physics facts" pictures where 15 people lend a finger each and can lift an adult off the ground with no effort at all. They don't feel encumbered by you because you only very rarely ask (each of) them for a favor, and if any one of them lets you down you have 14 others to fall back on. An independent person is one with a well-diversified social portfolio. Being socially isolated actually makes you less independent by narrowing your options when you need help, and from time to time you are going to need help. Most people have at least a basic "starting package" in the form of family. I don't have that, so I've had to create my portfolio from scratch by kissing the maximum possible amount of ass. Which I think works quite well because a network of strangers exists only for practical support and doesn't try to meddle in your life the way a family does.

Anyone else took a long time to realise this?

 

[WornOutLife]

An independent person is one with a well-diversified social portfolio.

Yes, great point.

As for me, independence meant getting the hell out of my parents house and becoming my own boss.
I don't depend on anybody, nobody depends on me! (well, my students kinda do lol)

However, I'm nothing alike to the picture with all the things an independent person should have.
No friends, no lovers, I only talk to my dad...

So, maybe I'm not that independent according to this society?

Whatever, I'm okay like this! (in spite of being a goddamn bipolar suicidal guy.)

 

[Makko]

Another term at play here is self-sufficience, meaning that you actually don't need anyone and produce/earn everything you need by yourself. This is not the same as independence. You can be a self-sufficient Robinson Crusoe -- it works very well, until it doesn't. Foreisight tells us that at some point we're going to need help. Someone who is not independent, in a crisis, you can typically only ask for help of one or two people. A parent, a lover, whatever. You'll have to lean your whole weight on that person, meaning you'll be dependent on them and their good will. Someone who is not dependent has a contingency.

 

[signifying nothing]

My preference is for interdependence - mutual reliance whilst also maintaining autonomy.

 

[Morituri_Te_Salutant]

What will dependence be then, in that regard?

 

[Shadowrider]

Very good question!
I think being dependent is not quite the same as experiencing situations where you need to rely on others.

Being able to master situations on your own, knowing what to do and how, understanding what you need and whom you need, not letting others use you might be the key to this question.

Have certain tasks related to "how to unlearn learnt helplessness" myself, so this thread is really important! (Or I am too egocentric, don't really know.)

 

[Makko]

My preference is for interdependence - mutual reliance whilst also maintaining autonomy.

Not sure what exactly that means. In the context of this thread, dependence - independence is a sliding scale of how broad your support network is. The fewer actors in your support structure, the less autonomy you have vis-a-vis each of them.

Being able to master situations on your own, knowing what to do and how, understanding what you need and whom you need, not letting others use you might be the key to this question.

Things like "mastering situations", "knowing what to do" and "not letting other use you" are qualitative and extremely vague terms that don't have much (or any) practical utility. Practically, your independence or lack thereof is put to test in situations that you can't solve on your own, and have to bring in support. There's a basic assumption that you're not invincible and can't master all the situations on your own (if you can, the point is moot).

Like I said above, it may be more practically meaningful to think of independence in quantitative terms: how much or how little support you have, and how much or how little you must rely on any particular source of support.

What will dependence be then, in that regard?

See above. As usual with my threads here, I'm having big trouble with getting my point across.

 

[signifying nothing]

Not sure what exactly that means. In the context of this thread, dependence - independence is a sliding scale of how broad your support network is. The fewer actors in your support structure, the less autonomy you have vis-a-vis each of them.

Interdependence takes into account the fact that you can be a part of other people's support structures as well as them being a part of yours. And this helps to keep the relationships you do have more balanced in terms of needing and giving support, ie net dependence is reduced or even reversed.

Also what you don't mention is the length of time the support is relied upon for - ie relying on someone for longer would make you more dependent on them. So to minimise this risk you'd look to ensure a certain amount of turnover in your social portfolio.

 

[Lmd]

Well, of course it works like that. We live in society and as much as we don't want to, we need other people. The thing is, What are your intentions behind those bonds? If you only want to use people for your social needs (emotional, work purpose, physical) you have to choose strong people and be the weaker one inside their circle so they won't rely too much on you. You also have to keep those bonds so it's better if you maintain them with people that you usually see so the effort is minimal. With a smile and a greeting or some details from time to time.