Venting At what point is it hopeless?

[Nervous young man]

I heard all the time from my loved ones ( before they abandoned me for my long-term issues ) many phrases I'm sure you have all heard. "It gets better", "you just need x" or "you need to give y a few more years" maybe even "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem" so my question is when does it become a permanent solution to a permanent problem. This isn't a question of bodily autonomy which very clearly means a person should be able to do to themselves whatever they want given they are a consenting adult ( in the news lately we have seen MANY attacks on bodily autonomy reminiscent of the repression the site is facing ) this is instead a question of when there is no longer possible a better future for someone. A world where there will be consistent suffering until death? For me ( and this is a venting thread so I will vent a bit ) I have intense dysphoria, SMI, serious economic troubles, deep resentments to others, and a generally very inamicable demeanor that drove off anyone who still cared about me. So in my head that leaves me with my issues and myself for the rest of my life however long that is. Consistent suffering for me is what validates ctb ( again if not for bodily autonomy ). So at what point does it become true that there is nothing else?

 

[spectraltease]

Its a hard question. Maybe it is important how other people see suicide against your view to suicide. People without these problems will of course not think like this and suicide is a taboo topic in most societies. So when is it hopeless? I think when you say so. When you think there is no hope and a rational solution is to commit suicide. And they will say suicide is never rational because its "a permanent decision to temporarily problems" but its your life, your decision. Sometimes I get better and the other days I feel so empty I just wish to kms, I always wonder if this decision is rational or not and I am still thinking about it. Sorry for my shitty english

 

[Nervous young man]

Maybe it is important how other people see suicide against your view to suicide.

I think this makes a lot of sense, this probably relates to some kind of need to validate myself. I wish everyone agreed with me or saw things the way I did. I wish I could prove it to them that it really is as bad as it is because then I could die without any problems. I just don't want problems for my loved ones, I'm going to ctb anyway but I wish I could exit without causing more issues, Lord knows I've done that enough

 

[spectraltease]

I think this makes a lot of sense, this probably relates to some kind of need to validate myself. I wish everyone agreed with me or saw things the way I did. I wish I could prove it to them that it really is as bad as it is because then I could die without any problems. I just don't want problems for my loved ones, I'm going to ctb anyway but I wish I could exit without causing more issues, Lord knows I've done that enough

But the problem is, that others will never understand. You know what you have tried and the others will never see that. If you know it's the best decision to make, then so should it be. I know you tried everything

 

[Nervous young man]

But the problem is, that others will never understand. You know what you have tried and the others will never see that. If you know it's the best decision to make, then so should it be. I know you tried everything

Wise words, wise words.

 

[J&L383]

Its a hard question. Maybe it is important how other people see suicide against your view to suicide. People without these problems will of course not think like this and suicide is a taboo topic in most societies. So when is it hopeless? I think when you say so. When you think there is no hope and a rational solution is to commit suicide. And they will say suicide is never rational because its "a permanent decision to temporarily problems" but its your life, your decision. Sometimes I get better and the other days I feel so empty I just wish to kms, I always wonder if this decision is rational or not and I am still thinking about it. Sorry for my shitty english

I agree it's a very hard question. And it's going to be different for everyone. And I agree it's only up to that person to decide when or if the time is right. And your English is fine.

 

[nogods4me]

Well there are probably some stats out there on how much less likely it is to resolve certain problems every decade that goes by in someone's life, maybe even something more precise. I think I once heard that people who haven't found a career or become independent adults by 35 are way less likely to ever find one or become proper adults so something along those lines might be out there for whoever wants to do the research.

Personally, I think if someone makes it to this website the odds are pretty low that things will get better but I am probably usually wrong about most everything. It's kind of like whether therapy works. I don't think it can ever work. People might attribute certain positive (and are they permanent?) changes to therapy but how sure are they it was the therapy? Why not give it a shot if you believe it is possible but if you really want to know what is most likely I think the answer might not be encouraging, which is also why some people are loathe to be entirely honest about it.

I hope someone out there can prove me wrong but if not then let's not sugar coat it for each other. Most people who start out badly in life will stay on their knees until the end, never getting up all the way to know what happiness feels like. Most people who have psychiatric problems or even just autism will always be suffering until the end. Sure, surprises happen. But they are surprises. Because they are in the very small minority.

You might get lucky and have certain things fall into place - perhaps a new relationship or job - that will create sufficient change to turn things around so you become happy, fulfilled, even able to help others later on. But probably not.

 

[Xabin]

Es una pregunta difícil de responder pero al final es una pregunta como otro cualquiera. Lo difícil es tener una actitud de saber responderte a preguntas y dilemas que van surgiendo y tener algo de capacidad para saber decidir. En general somos expertos en desviar nuestros problemas y desde ese punto de partida ya empezamos a hacernos preguntas que no son las correctas pero si hacemos lo más difícil, aceptar y ser consciente de cómo estoy, que me pasa y como me siento, podemos empezar a hacernos preguntas donde la respuesta podamos encontrarla dentro de nosotros mismos. Creo que si nos vamos conociendo mejor en esa experiencia de toma de decisiones también podremos reconocer mejor que señales, las sensaciones, la forma que tiene nuestro cuerpo en decirnos y comunicarnos información que nos sirva para decidir y tomar decisiones.

Si alguien piensa que las decisiones se toman a un nivel racional está, en mi opinión, bastante equilibrada. Solo hay que ver cómo las grandes empresas intentan vendernos sus productos mediante los anuncios. Un anuncio está plagado de mensajes inconscientes. Si pones un poco de atención de los anuncios distraen la mente racional con algo aparentemente llamativo para que todos los mensajes encubiertos, (que son los realmente importantes para ellos), vayan directamente a tu inconsciente. Porque como se suele decir "el jefe, el que manda, el que decide, es el inconsciente".

Sabiendo esto, yo soy de sensaciones. Claro que primero pienso pero mis sensaciones son las que me dan la seguridad de que algo me dice que voy bien o mal, o que algo no encaja o encaja. O que algo puede transformarse o algo está tan sumamente jodido que siento que no merece la pena. Yo ya he tomado mi decisión. Me tomo tiempo pero cuando siento que es la correcta ya no le doy más vueltas y soy fiel a mi decisión. Lo que quiero decir es que el corazón manda mucho más que el cerebro a la hora de decidir. Un profesor mío me dijo....."Primero piensa, después SIENTE, y más tarde actúa". Hay que "SENTIPENSAR" ja ja.

Hay una frase que dice......"Dame fuerzas para cambiar lo que pueda cambiar, serenidad para aceptar lo que no pueda cambiar y mucha sabiduría para distinguir entre las dos". Está es la pregunta en si"¿En que momento ya no hay esperanza?, ¿Que señales tendré en mi para saber que tengo que pasar de luchar por encontrarme mejor...... o darme cuenta de que no merece la pena seguir viviendo?. Cuando tengo que tomar una decisión o siento que tengo que mirar algo desde otro ángulo y no lo consigo hago un pequeño viaje a algún lado donde no he estado nunca y sobre todo e indispensable para esto, solo. Tengo esa pregunta en mi cabeza pero en un segundo plano sin pretender contestarme directamente y confío que durante el viaje que en algún momento, de algún modo, la respuesta me vendrá. A mí me sirve mucho. De hecho está decisión tan importante el tomé de esta forma.

Gracias a todos por vuestra honestidad y sinceridad. Por regalarme tus experiencias. No sabéis lo mucho que lo agradezco. Un abrazo a todos/as.​

 

[Forever Sleep]

I'd say, it's when the person themselves has lost so much hope that, they no longer have any motivation to try to improve their situation.

Put it this way- I imagine if any one of us expressed one or more problems here and, asked for advice, we'd likely receive it. Some of it maybe reasonable and do-able. We may still choose to reject that advice though.

Maybe we've tried their suggestion in the past and, it didn't help then. Maybe the prospect of what they've suggested is too daunting to face. Maybe it just sonds unappealing or impractical. We may not even believe that succeeding in whatever it is will vastly improve our situation. Or, maybe we're just too exhausted to keep trying.

So- it's all down to the individual I think. Maybe we feel ourselves that we've tried everything possible to turn things around and, to no avail. Or, maybe we're just not willing to try everything. I think it's possible to feel hopeless- even though there may still be other options to try- if for whatever reason, we no longer have the strength to try them. I think that's something people make their own decisions on though. What kind of life is acceptable to them and what amount of effort/ discomfort they are willing to put themselves through to get it.

 

[Nervous young man]

I'd say, it's when the person themselves has lost so much hope that, they no longer have any motivation to try to improve their situation.

I honestly love this response the most, how can anyone get better assuming there is a possibility if it will never reach them. I've just been broken way too many times. Thank you for your kind words.

 

[IsolatedChaos]

I'd say, it's when the person themselves has lost so much hope that, they no longer have any motivation to try to improve their situation.

Put it this way- I imagine if any one of us expressed one or more problems here and, asked for advice, we'd likely receive it. Some of it maybe reasonable and do-able. We may still choose to reject that advice though.

Maybe we've tried their suggestion in the past and, it didn't help then. Maybe the prospect of what they've suggested is too daunting to face. Maybe it just sonds unappealing or impractical. We may not even believe that succeeding in whatever it is will vastly improve our situation. Or, maybe we're just too exhausted to keep trying.

So- it's all down to the individual I think. Maybe we feel ourselves that we've tried everything possible to turn things around and, to no avail. Or, maybe we're just not willing to try everything. I think it's possible to feel hopeless- even though there may still be other options to try- if for whatever reason, we no longer have the strength to try them. I think that's something people make their own decisions on though. What kind of life is acceptable to them and what amount of effort/ discomfort they are willing to put themselves through to get it.

Well said.

 

[FuneralCry]

It's just so dreadful to me how there's all this suffering in existing, personally I'd always prefer to not suffer at all, a permanent solution from this existence I'd never wish for is all I hope for, it's all I see as desirable for me, I just want some peace. But anyway I wish you the best.

 

[derpyderpins]

I heard all the time from my loved ones ( before they abandoned me for my long-term issues ) many phrases I'm sure you have all heard. "It gets better", "you just need x" or "you need to give y a few more years" maybe even "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem" so my question is when does it become a permanent solution to a permanent problem. This isn't a question of bodily autonomy which very clearly means a person should be able to do to themselves whatever they want given they are a consenting adult ( in the news lately we have seen MANY attacks on bodily autonomy reminiscent of the repression the site is facing ) this is instead a question of when there is no longer possible a better future for someone. A world where there will be consistent suffering until death? For me ( and this is a venting thread so I will vent a bit ) I have intense dysphoria, SMI, serious economic troubles, deep resentments to others, and a generally very inamicable demeanor that drove off anyone who still cared about me. So in my head that leaves me with my issues and myself for the rest of my life however long that is. Consistent suffering for me is what validates ctb ( again if not for bodily autonomy ). So at what point does it become true that there is nothing else?

Hope may approach zero, but never reaches it.

That doesn't invalidate all ctbs. The odds can become so bad and the pain so much that it is an overwhelmingly right choice. But hope is never completely 0.

The typical phrases you're describing are completely unhelpful and just annoying.

"It gets better." No, it MIGHT get better.
"you just need x." No, for some people getting x was the last boost they needed.
"You need to give y a few more years." Context dependent I guess that could be sound advice, but "years" is asking a lot.
"suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem." Just dumb. Permanent solutions are always preferred. It just sounds nice. "Suicide is a permanent choice which - while ending current distress - ends all chances of future good developments in one's life" just doesn't sound as slogan-y.

 

[steppenwolf]

I'd say, it's when the person themselves has lost so much hope that, they no longer have any motivation to try to improve their situation.

Hope may approach zero, but never reaches it.

I disagree. Hope can and does reach zero and die entirely, evidently. But it also can and does return afterwards, evidently. And hope is not entirely dependent on the individual. External forces can randomly act upon the person with no hope or motivation, forces that restore hope and motivation if they do not directly improve their situation. It is in the nature of things to try to live, and to be at the mercy of random external forces, no matter how hopeless the position.

The question of 'validation' as regards suicide depends on the individual. A self-willed person should not need any validation for what they do; they already know why they're doing it. There are a myriad of situations where suicide might seem a valid course, usually of the character of avoiding some endless agony or living nightmare that only ever promises to become worse until it proves fatal anyway, but those situations are always about individual avoidance of a problem, which to the minds of thoughtful people requires validation in order for the avoidance not to appear as some sort of shabby cowardice. But many suicides wouldn't care what people think of them.

In any case, whatever it is that drives people to suicide is left behind by them and survives them, and is left behind for other people who in their ignorance are less qualified to deal with it. I suppose that 'validation' comes when suicide becomes the only means of calling ignorant people's attention to the seriousness of the problem. But that's just me.