J

Jessica5

Specialist
May 22, 2019
347
Pro-life people always talk about suicide survivors who are glad they lived. Including some people who have shot half their face off, become physically handicapped, etc.

Something tells me this is grossly exaggerated by pro-life people. The people who still wish they were dead probably won't admit it. And even if they do admit it, the pro-life media probably won't report what they say.
 
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Alchemist

Alchemist

Warlock
Apr 3, 2019
709
It's mostly confirmation bias. Surely some truly regret trying, but I can bet that just as many are just saying it because they fear being committed again and/or those who don't regret it don't get as much press.
 
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TowerUpright

TowerUpright

Disillusioned
May 26, 2019
602
Speaking for myself - No. I really need to write a newbie introductory post.

I've attempted to kill myself multiple times - first time at about 11 years old with the serious intent of not waking up. I've attempted suicide multiple times since then, some very recent (I'm over 40 now). Some came seriously close to succeeding.

I really wish I CTB a while ago and, if I absolutely knew I would not wake up AND the method was relatively quick and painless, I'd do it again. Unfortunately for me (but fortunately for my family), I haven't found that way yet.

What are others' experiences?
 
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Oblivion Lover

Oblivion Lover

No life, no suffering
May 30, 2019
360
Well, I can't say anything for the others, but I'm definitely not happy that I survived my first attempt to CTB, but I'm glad that I didn't have any sequels. One day I said to my mother that if I ever ended up a vegetable in a hospital bed, I would want to be euthanized, but then she said that she would never be able to allow someone to end my life, no matter how much I was suffering. Just remembering that makes me angry.
 
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Partial-Elf

Partial-Elf

Eternal Oblivion
Dec 26, 2018
461
Well, I can't say anything for the others, but I'm definitely not happy that I survived my first attempt to CTB, but I'm glad that I didn't have any sequels. One day I said to my mother that if I ever ended up a vegetable in a hospital bed, I would want to be euthanized, but then she said that she would never be able to allow someone to end my life, no matter how much I was suffering. Just remembering that makes me angry.
What a warped and selfish version of love
 
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TAW122

TAW122

Emissary of the right to die.
Aug 30, 2018
6,813
I think it's rather misleading when the media reports the majority of suicide survivors (those who failed their attempts) as regretting their decision because most survivors are afraid to admit the truth and also the media censors, downplays the actual suffering of most survivors. Then of course, there are those who changed their mind or weren't really wanting to CTB in the first place (hard to estimate exactly how many, but they exist in the statistics). So a more accurate number would be about 50% at most, maybe a bit lower, but certainly not 90%+.

@Alchemist Ah yes, confirmation bias would be the right word here.
 
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PatKat

PatKat

Meh
Aug 9, 2018
1,025
I think it's rather misleading when the media reports the majority of suicide survivors (those who failed their attempts) as regretting their decision because most survivors are afraid to admit the truth and also the media censors, downplays the actual suffering of most survivors. Then of course, there are those who changed their mind or weren't really wanting to CTB in the first place (hard to estimate exactly how many, but they exist in the statistics). So a more accurate number would be about 50% at most, maybe a bit lower, but certainly not 90%+.
Some days I am glad I survived, some days I wish I would have died. It really depends on the day, and my current mood. I will say most days are the latter for me though. How I am still fighting at this point is beyond me. I know what I need to do is get back on my medications, psychologist, and psychiatrist getting back on medications isnt easy also how they effect me. I am to the point where sometimes I am afraid of myself.
 
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Faraway1990

Faraway1990

Student
Jun 2, 2019
195
I've attempted CTB twice once when I was 15 and another when I was 26 I was happy to survive my first attempt because I did have a reasonably good life but certainly not the 2nd attempt my life has just gone down hill since then and I've settled on a guaranteed success as long as I take my time and do it right. Night night
 
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Oblivion Lover

Oblivion Lover

No life, no suffering
May 30, 2019
360
What a warped and selfish version of love
I prefer to think that she only said that because she hadn't thought about it before saying it, and if I actually ended with permanent brain damage, she would find a way to end my suffering as a far as I'm concerned euthanasia is completely illegal in my country. It's hard to think that she's a selfish monster all the time.
 
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crimea_river

crimea_river

Experienced
May 27, 2019
210
I would say, like the OP suggested, it's grossly exaggerated.

Of course, there are going to be people who have had a 'change of heart', or have received treatments that have made them feel that way.

The fact is, people that have attempted, tell untruths to therapists to evade very unplesant situations, so they're hardly likely to do anything different when talking to a pro-life journalist, blogger etc
 
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Faraway1990

Faraway1990

Student
Jun 2, 2019
195
I would say, like the OP suggested, it's grossly exaggerated.

Of course, there are going to be people who have had a 'change of heart', or have received treatments that have made them feel that way.

The fact is, people that have attempted, tell untruths to therapists to evade very unplesant situations, so they're hardly likely to do anything different when talking to a pro-life journalist, blogger etc
How many of these people talked their way out of that situation just to go home and CTB? So many people go that route for reasons that can't be fixed with a pill or pro life encouragement. I'd be kind of interested to know.
 
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crimea_river

crimea_river

Experienced
May 27, 2019
210
How many of these people talked their way out of that situation just to go home and CTB? So many people go that route for reasons that can't be fixed with a pill or pro life encouragement. I'd be kind of interested to know.
I'd love to know that too!

Statistics regarding suicide are manipulated, even getting it as a cause of death has to be proven beyond the shadow of a doubt and beyond. Nobody's going to want to deliver bad news like 'Man who claimed he was glad he survives suicide attempt.... commits suicide'
 
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J

Jessica5

Specialist
May 22, 2019
347
How many of these people talked their way out of that situation just to go home and CTB? So many people go that route for reasons that can't be fixed with a pill or pro life encouragement. I'd be kind of interested to know.


I don't have a hard time believing that most people who "attempt" suicide with pills are glad they live. Pills have such a low success rate that you have to question if a person trying to overdose even wants to die. For a lot of people it's probably just a cry for help.

Shooting yourself or jumping from 200 feet? It's hard to consider that a cry for help.
 
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GeorgeJL

GeorgeJL

Enlightened
Mar 7, 2019
1,621
If the survivors do indeed regret it then it's probably because they "hit rock bottom" in a failed attempt.
 
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kolski

kolski

ᴡᴇ ᴀʀᴇ ᴍᴏɴsᴛᴇʀs
May 27, 2019
115
Hmm~ I think it depends on the person and what changed after they attempted & survived that makes them want to stay now. To me though, it sounds a little unrealistic that a large majority would regret attempting? Their situation is still going to be the same. Whatever drove that person to want to physical destroy them self most likely wouldn't have disappeared. Speaking from a personal POV, my suicide attempt didn't change my view of wanting to die.
 
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mathieu

mathieu

Enlightened
Jun 5, 2019
1,090
I hate that my attempts failed.
 
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Sayo

Sayo

Not 2B
Aug 22, 2018
520
Many suicides are impulsive. I have no doubt that many suicide survivors feel they acted rashly and are grateful to live. Other suicide survivors may improve their lives after the fact (spurred on by enforced no suicide, or family helping them, or just seeing their actions affect others, whatever), or feel a weird sort of gratitude to those who put in effort to save their lives. People who are prone to defeatism might rationalise it into optimism to be able to psychologically cope. Just some examples of the reasoning I've seen.

Studies have found that impulsive suicides (which is admittedly a bit of a nebulous term in suicidology) make up a fairly significant proportion of suicide attempts, and they (rather understandably) tend to fare better medically from their attempts, especially when access to particularly fatal methods is restricted. Their circumstances tend to be better statistically and their ideation not always as severe. I have no doubt many of these people have become very desperate but, when encountered with how miserable a suicide attempt is and given a chance to re-evaluate (maybe their family show sympathy, maybe their suicidal symptoms are alleviated long enough to enjoy things temporarily, maybe they are even given successful treatment for their problems), they stick it out until it gets better enough for them. Cynically I think many just rule it out and do a lot to rationalise what's acceptable because the outcome - that they really go through with suicide again - is untenable to them, a real last resort if anything, but that is true of much of humanity.

A person who attempts suicide because his fiancé left him may start to get over it and see that life is livable without her after some time, but he still is forced to work miserable jobs, probably until he dies. But he is psychologically resolved to work those miserable jobs and not deeply suicidal in a way he can consciously recognise because of it; he just uses it as suicide fuel when something really pushes him to the limit, like being without one of the few things that made all that hard work worthwhile. Did his situation change?

Of course, there are outliers. Some impulsive suicides are part of a pattern of impulsive suicidal behaviour motivated by chronic suicidality, e.g. in the context of some mental illnesses. Of course there are impulsively suicidal people whose lives will not get better or don't get better. These people aren't necessarily glad to have lived. I imagine there are plenty of people who aren't happy but believe they have to get on with it now, or are scared to attempt again, or don't know how to help themselves, or can't even admit it to themselves because the alternative would be suicidal desperation. Never forget that there are many people who believe in destiny.

I will tell you something that affected me greatly after an attempt I made to drown myself in the ocean four years ago. I failed, and I had been out in the water for hours. It was winter. I was miserable and I clearly looked very 'wrong' - nobody goes out for a winter swim at 4 AM in their nightclothes. At the time I had given up, the sun was coming up and people were coming to walk their dogs by the beach. Now part of what had driven this attempt was violence in the preceding days, total isolation and despair, and the knowledge that all my life, people had treated me terribly and would likely continue to do so. But at this point I was not completely jaded.

Every single person stopped to ask me what was wrong and if they could help me. It was the bare minimum expression of human decency. A few people followed me to ensure I really did not want help. I had never been acknowledged so often by strangers before in a genuinely concerned way. In fact, I had generally been ignored and laughed at by strangers. I was completely vulnerable to this kindness. I got myself out of the terrible situation I was in.

I told this story because I expect the experience might be a little similar for the recent survivors. Any kind treatment given to them post-attempt might be some of the first real care they ever got, or the most they ever got at once. You have a physical high from survival* and a knowledge you have to get through at least the few days. You are vulnerable to anything and your brain does what it has to do to cope with the realisation you're stuck living a bit more. Six months down the line, when everything's gone back to normal, or six years, when the high of survival has worn off, and most importantly they're no longer being surveilled, it might mean a lot less to the person.

*Many people who go through life-saving surgeries also experience this post-surgery euphoria.

Anyway, we can defend our right to choose - others choosing to live should not diminish our choices if they're well-reasoned and we can understand why others would make that choice enough to reject its scope, or if we reject the premise.

edit: Also, yes, those stories are amplified by pro-choicers, and I imagine their emotional nuance is simplified in the process. It's worth noting there are many pro-choice emissaries who went through some of the processes I described themselves - they failed and are defending their choice to live, both internally and externally. They may prioritise some of the pleasure they've since experienced as better than all the pain they went through, or ignore their immediate anger and despair because in the long term they ended up happy, etc. Many of them are terrified that they might have succeeded and want to save others from that, whether they assume everyone is like them or they just target those who are. Sometimes they view it as a calling. Other times they are affected in other ways by suicide or see the potential effects of it on their loved ones, so they go and assume everyone else is like them.
 
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inconsequential

inconsequential

Enlightened
Jun 1, 2019
1,011
Anecdotally, I just woke up angry, and feeling like a failure. I couldn't even CTB correctly.
 
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Mart

Mart

eh
Apr 27, 2019
95
It's mostly confirmation bias. Surely some truly regret trying, but I can bet that just as many are just saying it because they fear being committed again and/or those who don't regret it don't get as much press.
Yeah, reporting on somebody saying something like that would probably end in scrutiny.
 
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I

Its time its time

Student
Apr 7, 2019
147
The media will never report
'Mr X failed his attempted suicide however he will keep trying until he succeeds'

When it comes to the taboo topic of suicide, they must always be pro life. Or else they'll be crucified by the governments or religious establishments. So most of the research that gets reported in the media is mostly positive pro life. Just my thoughts.
 
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Conflicted Cat

Conflicted Cat

Experienced
May 23, 2019
256
Yes. It is very very exaggerated... They talk so much about the ones that regretted it, but they NEVER, EVER talk about the ones that still wish they were dead, because it doesn't fall in line with their BS views.
 
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21Neberg

21Neberg

Enlightened
Dec 17, 2018
1,624
I don't think so. The desperation and mental issues that drive someone to suicide don't suddenly fade after an attempt. It just seems like it because only those who are grateful to live get a Ted Talk, not the ones who are still suicidal.
 
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memento_mori

memento_mori

Student
Mar 28, 2019
190
no regrets about my attempts
just sad and lost afterwards, I really don't know what I'm alive for.
 
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D

deathenvoy

Experienced
Mar 29, 2019
215
After my suicide attempt I was regretting that I was 'saved' and I told this to psychiatrist.
2 years later after many medications that didn't do jack shit, 6 months therapy, traveling, excercises, healthy eating, etc I want to die as never before. Already have meto&N. I will give myself time to March as this is due date of N.
 
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LongTimeComing

LongTimeComing

I'm a saint, got a date with suicide
May 23, 2019
58
I only regret feeling the guilt of letting my friends and family down. I knew it would hurt them, but at the time, I didn't care. It's embarrassing and I hate that I scared so many people I care about. I still wish I was dead, but know I won't act upon it again for a long while.
 
LifeIsNotFun

LifeIsNotFun

Mage
Jun 1, 2019
530
I almost died on my first ever suicide attempt. I wish I was never found, and when I woke up in the hospital I was regretting being there. sigh.
 
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Slate128

Slate128

Member
May 5, 2019
84
Of all the people I've surveyed I can statistically say that 0% of people are not glad they lived.
 
appalachian moon

appalachian moon

Member
May 13, 2019
23
I have mixed feelings about surviving my attempts, and I'm pretty sure others feel the same as well. In one way, I'm glad I got to live because I get to experience good memories with friends/family and enjoy some aspects of life like (now I'm going to list things I enjoy at the top of my head) sport, talking to friends, watching movies, all that bullshit, but it can only last so long until depression drags me under and I feel sad as shit again. Yeah, I manage to resurface sometimes but my mood fluctuates and I never know when I'm going to snap and try to CTB again. It's a vicious cycle of wanting to die but having to live for the sake of your loved ones in my case.
 
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NextSummer

NextSummer

Experienced
Mar 28, 2019
278
This group of regretful suicidals is very important. We can't talk away the group of suicidals that might do a mistake by suiciding and later rightfully regret their past attempts. We have to propose a system where people have a right to die while preventing these (impulsive) suicidals from using euthanasia service. Right now there is a dilemma for society. What can they do?

  1. Hardcore suicide preventionism: Restrict suicide as much as possible and make suicide hard for everybody. Thus saving the impulsive suicidals from making a mistake and letting serious suicidals die painfully
  2. Unconditional right-to-die Provide peaceful deaths for everybody that want it, including people who are in a temporary crisis and might be willing to live after a while.
We think (1) is unfair to us, but isn't (2) unfair to them? We can't demand "right-to-die" without proposing a system in which suicide prevention for vulnerable people has its place.
 
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