N

noname223

Archangel
Aug 18, 2020
6,482
There are people who say Israel blackmails Americans politicians to get what they want. Others, say Israel is a puppet state owned by the US.

You can argue, that lobbyists and interests groups have a strong impact on domestic politics and foreign affairs. I watch the series Ghost in the Shell currently. It is a sci-fi anime. And the author is pretty politically savvy. The female prime minister is only a puppet of other powerful elites in Japan.

And to an extent I would say this can apply to many states but it depends.

Let's take Trump. Trump is most likely the most powerful person on the planet, But his agenda is writen by his friends of the Heritage foundation. There are the transhumanist tech elites who try to influence him. And the postliberal intellectuals like Patrick Deneen, Curtis Yarvin, J.D. Vance. There are arguments about how interventionist the foreign policy should be. There were arguments how migration politics should look like. I think Trump does not care enough about all of that. He is not an ideologue. He has his ego, wants to make as much money as possible, cares about attention and admiration. The details are up to other people. On paper Trump is the most powerful person but the strings are controlled by for example Susi Wiles, Russ Vought or Stephen Miller. They are not very present in the media. The media usually concetrates on erratic Mr. Trump while other steer the country and agenda. Of course Trump's personality plays a huge role. Most other foreign leaders try to please his ego and compliment him. But when they get what they want, they are actually the one's who manipulate Trump. So Trump is quite a weak person. Someone who is that transactional with no real values is only a byproduct and symptom of this hyerindividualistic end-phase capitalism. And an accelerator of the demise of the Western world. But he is not the one who leads and envisions a new utopia or dytopia. He was the one pleasing the people prior to the election with his charisma and language that should give him the facade of an American that knows the sorrows of the average Joe and Jane hidding the true agenda.

On a metaphysical level, most people were only symptoms of their time. There are historians that say even if Hitler did not exist someone similar would have taken his place in the Weimarer Republic in the 20s. If we act like Hitler was this special person, the only person who was capable of seducing the German people into facism we are falling for Nazi propaganda. Hitler was a pathetic loser, not very gifted in art, full of resentment, uneducated, pretty bad in strategy and planning. In most cases he would have had a pretty medicore life surviving from week to week because he is unable to hold a job. But his charisma, his skills in holding speeches, the right-circumstances, and powerul allies made it possible that he could take over the country and led the world into a second world war. Maybe not everything would have happened completely in the same way. I don't pretend that. But there was already a lot of antisemitism in Germany. At the same time, I have to say there were chances that history played out differently. A Nazi governmet could have been prevented. But Hindenburg, von Papen and many democrats acted in the wrong ways. They were weak and acted opportunistic in a naive way. My point is don't mystify Hitler. He was not this unique person in history who was the only one capable of doing this.

In a close sense there are many puppet governments in the world. Many massively influenced by the US, some by Russia.

In Germany I don't know. I live there. I have the feeling Friedrich Merz does not have a huge scope only looking at his person. He is the one who determined the leading figures of the Chrsistian Democrats. He made some severe strategical mistakes like lying to the voters prior to the election his government would never pay new investitions with debts. All of that is true. He is not a good communicator. But most people in the CDU who were candidates for being chancellor would be driven by the fear of the rising far-right too. I have the feeling it is pretty difficult to steer the direction against the zeitgeist. Many strategical decisions were taken a long time ago and you can for some issues only manage the mistakes of the past in the best way possible. For example, Germany's dependency on US military or the dependency on Russian oil and gas. I would not call him a puppet. But a chancellor of Germany has way less power than a US president looking at the different constitutions. There are many veto players who have an own agenda. It is a complex interplay of many factors. And there is a strong path dependency in our system. But I think this also applies to the US.

What do you think?
 
Last edited:
  • Informative
  • Like
Reactions: Forever Sleep and katagiri83
Dejected 55

Dejected 55

Visionary
May 7, 2025
2,196
There are a lot of people who are controlled either through money, blackmail, or just social pressure. There are also a lot of bad people in power who use that power to control others to their bidding. Power in the world, in humanity, tends to settle either to powerful bad people OR weak-minded controllable puppets. I don't know why that is... but it seems to hold out. Also, sadly, most people are apparently fine with this because they keep choosing such leaders whenever they have the opportunity to choose who runs things.
 
F

Forever Sleep

Earned it we have...
May 4, 2022
14,243
I agree with you. I think these figureheads aren't necessarily the most intelligent people, although they may be the most passionate/ outspoken. Not even just through lack of ability necessarily. I get the impression more that it's to do with arrogance.

They have very firm opinions about certain things and maybe they lean towards the facts that support those opinions and merely dismiss everything else as being false or biased or corrupt.

And I suppose naturally- that will benefit those who also lean towards those ideas also. Do you suppose these people effectively become radicalised by those around them? Do their ideas become more extreme? I imagine it must be a kind of echo chamber- the people they surround themselves with.

But then- I'm largely uneducated. Have any of these people had their opinions swayed do you know?

I suspect it's a mixture though. I suspect some of the ideas are indeed their own but then, I'm also sure they are manipulated.

I imagine sometimes, they may even know they are being coerced but then- maybe they do actually still see that as the better sollution compared to worse ones. I suspect they do have to compromise sometimes. Just in terms of power too. They may not necessarily agree with someone but they may realise it's unwise to totally oppose them.

Just in principle though, it's scary I think. I've witnessed it in the workplace. The 'yes men' who will do anything to get ahead. They will seemingly undertake any questionable task- because they've been told to do it. And they either don't question the morality of it or, they don't care. Or, they even seem to get some sadistic thrill out of making others suffer! The power trip. It's distressing that people like that do so well in this world.

Like you say though- they are one person. Maybe they could have been any one of a number like them. Maybe the more distressing idea is how many people support them. Probably because they shout the loudest for one. They offer people a solution- Trump and Hitler are both saying the same thing- 'I'll make your country great again'. They know how to push people's buttons. I can only assume that those opposing them also just aren't convinving or reliable sounding enough.

I think it still makes sense we want to know about these people though. What happened to Hitler to make him despise certain people to that extent? To view them as subhuman? That's such an extreme view. It's puzzling/ deeply troubling.

But yes- we ought to be examining the environments that enable these people to seize power to begin with.
 
  • Like
Reactions: noname223