Anyone has philosophical reasons to CTB?

[Ennoia]

You know, someone who I care not to remember, said that the only real philosophical question is whether to be or not to be. In my mind I realized the futility of it all. It is very depressing, no matter what emotional or mental state I have. This realization is so well established that no matter what goal I set in my heart, it is not worth it. I mean I can't even set a goal after all... I just postpone the inevitable disintegration of this body. I also realized that the body isn't really alive. If it would have been, it would never die. But I have to eat because I am being eaten to death. I am born in death! So is it, from dust we came and to dust we shall return again? Does the human being has the right to take his own life then? Is it a rational decision? I think it is the only expression of free will. Think about it, every singe cell within your body strives to survive, according to well established patterns, yet there is something that can go against this design, a group of cells perhaps that can rebel. The ultimate act of rebellion...

 

[Alucard]

Absurd and injustice.

 

[Ennoia]

Absurd and injustice.

Would you elaborate a little if you want?

 

[Neverod]

It's the most rational thing a human can do, because the simple thought of it makes you think about all the things you will (or probably) do in your existance, think of its valor, if it's worth the effort, time and energy consumption or no. ofc we are talking about a very deep instrospection, not just thinking: "i'm bored i want to die". That mentality is fine, but not so philosophical at all, it's not answering the why of the why in yourself.
My principal reason is philosophical, has influences from Albert Camus (absurdism), Sartre, Nietszche and Schopenhauer, all about human behavior and how a vast number of humans can live being and acting like disgusting beings that don't think at all, but think they do, and will try to drown you with their so "fulfilled" existance full of materialism, ignorance, hypocrite religions, twisted "feelings" if you can call that feeling at all.. The world needs a reset, it's already too late to change anything, but we still think we can.

 

[Lethe]

It's not my primary reason, but I use it as a backdrop to justify my decision and put things into perspective.

 

[Alucard]

We did not choose to be born. Life is inflicted on us against our will.

In addition, we seek a meaning, and the world is insane : this mismatch between a Human who seeks meaning and the world that does not create the absurd.

 

[Neverod]

We did not choose to be born. Life is inflicted on us against our will.

In addition, we seek a meaning, and the world is insane : this mismatch between a Human who seeks meaning and the world that does not create the absurd.

Ah, a man of culture.

 

[deadalready]

Non existence or existence with happiness and pain? The former.

 

[Ennoia]

We did not choose to be born. Life is inflicted on us against our will.

In addition, we seek a meaning, and the world is insane : this mismatch between a Human who seeks meaning and the world that does not create the absurd.

Yes I see... Now I know why I loved to say for a while to myself: "I am merely the victim of existence."

 

[MeltingHeart]

You know, someone who I care not to remember, said that the only real philosophical question is whether to be or not to be. In my mind I realized the futility of it all. It is very depressing, no matter what emotional or mental state I have. This realization is so well established that no matter what goal I set in my heart, it is not worth it. I mean I can't even set a goal after all... I just postpone the inevitable disintegration of this body. I also realized that the body isn't really alive. If it would have been, it would never die. But I have to eat because I am being eaten to death. I am born in death! So is it, from dust we came and to dust we shall return again? Does the human being has the right to take his own life then? Is it a rational decision? I think it is the only expression of free will. Think about it, every singe cell within your body strives to survive, according to well established patterns, yet there is something that can go against this design, a group of cells perhaps that can rebel. The ultimate act of rebellion...

how come the body isnt really alive just cos you die?- all living things die- nothing is immortal-what is yr philosphical proposition that yr body isnt really alive or it wouldnt be able to die? just interested

 

[Chalken]

I guess nihilism plays a part in my depression. There is optimistic nihilism too, accepting the meaninglessness of it all and doing whatever you want, but I'm not like that. If everything is meaningless and has no point, why bother living or trying? I know people say you have to find your own meaning, but I just have no motivation or desire to do so.

I agree with you, suicide feels like a big fuck you to the universe and life in general. Nobody chose to be born, so I believe that everyone should have the right to end their lives peacefully, but many cling to life so hard and are so pro-life that they see suicide as a tragic act, when the most tragic thing was the person's life and the pain they had experienced beforehand.

 

[MeltingHeart]

I think the philosphy doesnt even need to be that deep (unless of course you want it to be so) but put rather simple- if you do derive some pleasure out of your days on this planet (even if you have times of stress, strife & sadness) if you have enough days of enjoyment to balance out the bad ones you may have- then you will want to proceed with yr life- if the bad days- of physical or psychological pain outway the good- you will not want to continue with your existence at the end of the day- you will come to the logical conclusion that your life quite simply is not 'worth' living. People always deem suicide an irrational choice (which for some it certainly might be if they act immediately during moments of suffering) but if it is well considered its actually a perfectly rational thing to do-all be it a seemingly incredibly hard thing to achieve-if you dont have the right means- perhaps in some ways more so for those that havent just acted impulsively- because you have all this extra time to contemplate it-which for me certainly doesnt help

 

[Eternal Pessimist]

I guess the way I would put it is that I haven't found any philosophical reasons to not ctb. I don't think that I have any obligation to live and considering the fact that like everyone else I was born without my consent I have every right to end my life if I so wish.

 

[Ennoia]

how come the body isnt really alive just cos you die?- all living things die- nothing is immortal-what is yr philosphical proposition that yr body isnt really alive or it wouldnt be able to die? just interested

The way I see it, in other words is that the dead are not alive and the living will not die. The body seems to be "alive", but if you investigate this word more carefully, you see that there is nothing living about it. There is movement yes, but my existence in this world depends on numerous elements, structures, processes. Should one of them be lacking, the body would return to a former state. I am like a big lego creation, made of smaller creations. It is because of the presence of all these elements, like water, air, light etc that I can be here. But what is alive doesn't have to depend on something in order to exist. Therefore it will not die, because it has an existence of itself, apart from design and cause. What is caused is deisgned. What is designed is prone to change and in order for change to continue, other changes must take place. As long as there is change, there is imperfection and ultimately death, which is another name for transformation. There is therefore something that has a beginning. What has a beginning will have an end. But what has no beginning does not have an end.

 

[MeltingHeart]

The way I see it, in other words is that the dead are not alive and the living will not die. The body seems to be "alive", but if you investigate this word more carefully, you see that there is nothing living about it. There is movement yes, but my existence in this world depends on numerous elements, structures, processes. Should one of them be lacking, the body would return to a former state. I am like a big lego creation, made of smaller creations. It is because of the presence of all these elements, like water, air, light etc that I can be here. But what is alive doesn't have to depend on something in order to exist. Therefore it will not die, because it has an existence of itself, apart from design and cause. What is caused is deisgned. What is designed is prone to change and in order for change to continue, other changes must take place. As long as there is change, there is imperfection and ultimately death, which is another name for transformation. There is therefore something that has a beginning. What has a beginning will have an end. But what has no beginning does not have an end.

feel like ive just had a smoke after reading that. lol

 

[ManWithNoName]

I agree with you, suicide feels like a big fuck you to the universe and life in general. Nobody chose to be born, so I believe that everyone should have the right to end their lives peacefully, but many cling to life so hard and are so pro-life that they see suicide as a tragic act, when the most tragic thing was the person's life and the pain they had experienced beforehand.

The famous "To be or not to be" monologue from Shakespeare (who was a rather astute observer of all Human emotions) addresses this exact issue - and not surprisingly - the conclusion was that the reason those carry on and not ctb is exactly because we fear the unknown.

Should there be an afterlife (and I'm not saying there is or isn't) my assertion to the almighty would be: "If I knew then what I know now, I would have conducted myself much differently - be more responsible, I would have been kinder to others"

If the almighty chastises me for my ctb, I will respectfully argue that the Human condition—this Human life—this Human experience didn't come with good documentation i.e.: a clear "user's manual" of sorts on how to proceed. If the Almighty argues back along the lines of "it should have been obvious how to proceed..." then that is the moment I could genuinely lose respect for the cosmos. I hope the powers-that-be have far more compassion.

 

[Ennoia]

feel like ive just had a smoke after reading that. lol

You mean is nonsense?

 

[Lethe]

I am like a big Lego creation, made of other creations. Nietzsche? Aristotle? Camus? Nah fam, Ennoia.

 

[Ennoia]

I am like a big Lego creation, made of other creations. Nietzsche? Aristotle? Camus? Nah fam, Ennoia.

Shh is too dip

 

[Jean Améry]

It was Camus who wrote it in his The myth of Sisyphus.

For me philosophical pessimism, negative utilitarianism and the conviction that death is the end of all individual consciousness, personality, experiences... Those three combined lead me to the conclusion it's always better to be dead than alive.

If it weren't for my foolish romantic attachment to the notion of ethics (which is basically fiction designed to lead the masses by the nose) and the stupidity of caring about a few others I wouldn't be here today. I wouldn't be happier as such as I wouldn't be able to experience anything but I do think I would be better off.

 

[Heart of Ice]

I guess most of my reasonings would seem philosophical to some.

 

[Crushed_Innocence]

Yup, how i see it too.

 

[Ennoia]

Yup, how i see it too.

Thanks for reminding me of that beautiful song. We are light beings trapped in material bodies and our place is indeed, somewhere over the Rainbow.

 

[ARW3N]

One of the the world's most famous intellectual pronouncements comes at the beginning of The Myth of Sisyphus by Albert Camus: "There is but one truly serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide. Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy." Camus, of course, didn't die a suicide but in an automobile crash at the age of forty-six.

Philosophical musings on suicide are comforting but very different from the daunting act itself. To quote Friedrich Nietzsche: "The thought of suicide is a great consolation: by means of it one gets through many a dark night." I don't know if anyone has seen the controversial 2006 documentary The Bridge by Eric Steel which depicts actual people jumping to their deaths from the Golden Gate Bridge. The hesitancy and backflips of the jumpers is very different from all the philosophical musings on the subject. The documentary puts paid to the concept that suicide is an impulsive act.

 

[ManWithNoName]

It is true that there is comfort in the option of self deliverance, yet when it comes down to the moment, the act of carrying it out is a different thing all together. One needs to be 110% certain that this is what you want after all efforts to find some kind of meaning, purpose and value have been exhausted. And if one does decide to call it quits, then do so because, after careful consideration, it is what you want, as opposed to ending one's life in an effort to make others feel bad, or make some statement, etc. I think one of the Stoics, Marcus Aurelius (from his book Meditations) stated it best:

"But if you feel yourself falling away and losing control, retire in good heart to some corner where you will regain control—or else make a complete exit from life, not in anger, but simply, freely, with integrity, making this leaving of it at least one achievement in your life."

 

[ARW3N]

It is true that there is comfort in the option of self deliverance, yet when it comes down to the moment, the act of carrying it out is a different thing all together. One needs to be 110% certain that this is what you want after all efforts to find some kind of meaning, purpose and value have been exhausted. And if one does decide to call it quits, then do so because, after careful consideration, it is what you want, as opposed to ending one's life in an effort to make others feel bad, or make some statement, etc. I think one of the Stoics, Marcus Aurelius (from his book Meditations) stated it best:

"But if you feel yourself falling away and losing control, retire in good heart to some corner where you will regain control—or else make a complete exit from life, not in anger, but simply, freely, with integrity, making this leaving of it at least one achievement in your life."

I like very much your Stoic take on suicide and that's a nice reminder that it wasn't always maligned, criminalised or regarded as a taboo in the past as it is today.

 

[ThingWithFeathers]

Whenever I see the collocation of philosophy and suicide, I can't stop thinking about what Albert Camus said:

"There is but one truly serious philosophical problem and that is suicide. Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy. All the rest — whether or not the world has three dimensions, whether the mind has nine or twelve categories — comes afterwards. These are games; one must first answer."

 

[Jean Améry]

Whenever I see the words philosophy and suicide together, I can't stop thinking about what Albert Camus said:

"There is but one truly serious philosophical problem and that is suicide. Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy. All the rest — whether or not the world has three dimensions, whether the mind has nine or twelve categories — comes afterwards. These are games; one must first answer."

For someone who is suicidal it is indeed the single most important philosophical problem of all (any sort of problem for that matter). For others it doesn't even register as a problem, let alone a major one. I don't believe Camus himself was ever suicidal: he merely imagined himself in that situation for the purpose of his essay.

It does sound good but I doubt whether it's actually possible to determine the value of life in the abstract, i.e. philosophically. Each life is different, each person is different therefore imo it's simply not possible to determine in general terms whether 'life' is worth it or not.

If I recall correctly the answer Camus gave was that we must face the absurdity of life and live passionately which imo is itself an absurd statement. Surely the 'value of life' can only be determined by the individual herself (meaning is created, not given) but why pretend to be able to give a philosophical answer to this question given that this will differ form person to person?

 

[ARW3N]

Whenever I see the words philosophy and suicide together, I can't stop thinking about what Albert Camus said:

"There is but one truly serious philosophical problem and that is suicide. Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy. All the rest — whether or not the world has three dimensions, whether the mind has nine or twelve categories — comes afterwards. These are games; one must first answer."

The thing I can never forgive Camus for is that despite the book's very promising beginning he argues in the end that fleeing from the absurdity of reality into illusions, religion, or even death is not the way out. For Camus, suicide was the rejection of freedom. Instead of fleeing the absurd meaninglessness of life, we should embrace life passionately.

 

[ManWithNoName]

I like very much your Stoic take on suicide and that's a nice reminder that it wasn't always maligned, criminalised or regarded as a taboo in the past as it is today.

Thanks - I found this from Camus and segways into Frankl, and bear in mind that the only reason YouTube allows the topic of suicide is if the YouTuber recites the mantra that "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem" bullshit. But putting that aside, it is an interesting presentation on finding meaning.