TAW122

TAW122

Emissary of the right to die.
Aug 30, 2018
6,797
As a kid, while growing up I remember watching the Olympic games on TV (grew up in the 90's) and I remember when I was in either elementary or middle school, people talked about how it was difficult to even qualify at the Olympic level, and also winning gold medal (or any medals at all).

Disclaimer: I'm not an athlete and I don't have any interest nor plans to get into sports, let alone competitive sports or at a very high level. This is just an anecdotal experience that influenced and shaped my view on CTB as an option, before I even delved into the topic and idea of CTB itself.

So sitting at home as a middle school kid, my father talked about how much training and sacrifice as well as how many people are able to make it to the top (this also applies to professional sports as well, NBA, NFL, NHL, you name it, etc.), and I said "So for those people who didn't make it or those who didn't quite get the gold (most prestigious and cherished award), what happens to those people then? Their dreams are crushed, defeated.." So he said "Well they would just fall back on other plans, either be a coach, a teacher, or find another profession altogether. They have to accept defeat and adapt." So that latter part didn't sit comfortably with me, and sure, while most people do end up adapting or doing other stuff when their dreams did not pan out, it can't be said for everyone universally! I said, well what happens if they didn't do that, and then my dad said "Well they have no choice, they have to accept it! Otherwise they must be irrational [and need (professional) help!]." This of course upset me seeing that one doesn't have a way out of torment or any disappointing or uncomfortable situation.

Of course, the answer was death. However, people don't like that word and it has a lot of negative connotations (after all, we are in a pro-life, life worshiping society!). But logically and with my curiosity, I meditated on that idea of death and it made sense to me. Not everyone can be the top, sometimes there are only one winner and the rest losers (Note: Not losers as in failure in life, but losers of a particular competition, event, or task!) and/or 2nd, 3rd, and so forth. Sure they are still greatly lauded and respected (maybe that's enough for them, but can't speak for all!), but it just isn't as great as they expected, perhaps even subconsciously, there is always some feeling of loss and suffering (albeit nobody admits to it, but maybe occasionally they have that disappointment and some do). So to me, I asked myself "What else are they going to do?" They are getting older and the opportunity for glory has long passed, the ship has sailed… they won't get that once in a lifetime opportunity again and have to live the rest of lives with their shattered, defeated dreams! It then occurred to me, well this taboo option that people keep evading, dodging, or even actively shunning and avoiding, 'death' perhaps that is an option. So then, it made sense and that death solves all the problems one is facing and while there is deprivation of future joy and pleasure, that is irrelevant because one is not sentient to experience the future joy, therefore it cannot be a deprivation of what never was there, it just never was a thing (similar to how people who were never born could never suffer, but I digress a bit).

In conclusion, developmental events and similar situations like these are certainly a factor in shaping my views on death, even before I recognized or learn of the right to die and CTB. For me, it made the most logical sense because beyond coping and just accepting defeat (which for some people is not an option, be it they don't want to or they are not capable of doing so, or both), then death is indeed a valid option and solution. It is sad that most people (the mainstream populace, the normies) see death as some horrible outcome that is to be avoided, deferred, and/or even buried (out of sight, out of mind) at all costs, when in fact it is the most logical (and natural – all living things will perish at some point).
 
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SilentSadness

SilentSadness

Vultures circle overhead
Feb 28, 2023
1,070
I agree. Death is a very helpful option that people refuse to let you consider because they are consumed by pro-life ideology and indifference to the suffering of others. Sadly people will always be like this, the human race is not much different to a pack of wolves or piranhas. Also it really is disgusting to me that suicidal people are treated as "mentally ill" and punished for telling others. I also agree that people who aren't happy anymore should be able to die. There's a saying, when the fun stops stop.
 
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rhiino

rhiino

Arcanist
May 13, 2020
486
Yes, it is sad how people look at death. I think this is an manifestation of the survival instinct that nature gave us. People just see death and thus escepially self inflicted death as something horrible, because they want to live themselves. Through the lack of empathy they fail to look beyond their own horizon and that there may be people whose best option is literally death.

This reminds me of my experiences that the people who make their clothes dirty fastest are the first ones to call you out when they see you with the same clothes for several days, although they are still clean and flawless. They just cannot detach from their own situation.
 
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glossble

glossble

homesick ⭒
Apr 14, 2023
80
I absolutely agree, I came to the same realization when I was 11, it hit me like a ton of bricks back then. I also hate the phrase "They should accept defeat and adapt".

But this's a survivorship bias when people mistake a visible successful subgroup as the entire group. So the person only considers the surviving observation without considering those data points that didn't "survive" in the event, aka didn't achieve their goals. And the percentage of those who didn't succeed is often much higher than those who did succeed. In reality, most people do not achieve their goals, but only a small percentage of people which others look to with the hope of reaching the same success one day.
Not to mention that many successful people were born with privileges such as wealth, or their parents had powerful connections that helped pull the strings in whatever field their kid's dreaming of. So even the talented and hardworking ones can miss out on an opportunity because someone rich is claiming it for themselves 🤷🏻‍♀️ All it takes is one kid to tell their rich parents they want to become a popular singer or a professional sports player, and they will most likely get it.

I may sound too pessimistic, but this world is truly not a wonderful place where you can become whatever you want if you just follow your dreams passionately and put in some effort. That's why I don't understand why CTB is such a taboo, but suggesting others to continue living a miserable life of suffering isn't
 
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PI3.14

PI3.14

π
Oct 4, 2024
58
I see your point and it's something I contemplated too.

It's indeed a fact that you either accept having lost in life or whatever goal and start adapting a new reality, that is more likely to be lower in terms of quality to the one you were seeking, or basically die. There is no other option.

For me, for example, finding love is a goal of mine. What happens then if I reach early 30s and still haven't even had a first relationship?

Then I either adapt and hope it happens in my mid or late 30s or basically CTB.

If I choose to adapt and again fail at this goal then the goalpost moves further away, the new one is to find love in 40s. You see the issue?

Each target you fail at achieving forces you to consider a lower quality target as an alternative. And if you fail the alternative then you will have to consider an even lower quality one.

I believe that, for many of us, there bound to be a point at which CTB is preferred over adapting. This point is different for each person.

I for example don't plan to live to my 30th birthday without a SO in my life. So age 29 is my limit which means that I have 3 years left.
 
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rhiino

rhiino

Arcanist
May 13, 2020
486
What happens then if I reach early 30s and still haven't even had a first relationship?
I can relate so much. 29 and never had a first relationship or even kiss. Nothing. Well, a girl let me hug her in school once... I gave up on that already years ago.

Each target you fail at achieving forces you to consider a lower quality target as an alternative. And if you fail the alternative then you will have to consider an even lower quality one.
This is exactly what I am going through the past decade. Every time I adapt to a new health problem and accept the lower quality of life through that and think I can go on and continue living (for my family), something new materializes, while nothing ever gets fixed or betters.
 
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TAW122

TAW122

Emissary of the right to die.
Aug 30, 2018
6,797
@SilentSadness Yes, that's the most basic criteria for whether life is enjoyable (in the most simplest terms). While of course I have some other factors that determine whether life is worth living, that is one of the most important ones among other ones.

@rhiino That pretty much sums up the attitude of the normies and masses, especially the dirty clothes analogy. It seems like they are just trying to project their views onto any and everyone regardless of circumstances.

@glossble Thanks for your insights and yes, you are correct with how the world works. I do believe that this "survivorship bias" among the masses is indeed a big factor in why people hold such repugnance against the state of death (non-sentience and non-existence) even though all the problems and sufferings come from existence, sentience (life) itself. I don't think you are too pessimistic, it's the real truth about the state of sentience itself and many people outside of SaSu simply will not accept or acknowledge it due to their indoctrination and programming by their peers and the way society is.

@PI3.14 I'm sorry to hear about your struggles and I can relate to a similar situation. Years ago when I was still a virgin, I vowed that I will not live to 30 if I didn't somehow (in any way shape or form) lose my virginity before my 30th birthday. Fortunately, I was able to do just that (also fortunate enough to because in 2020 the pandemic hit and all the mess that followed it). Even if I could get it at some future time (nothing is guaranteed of course), I didn't want to live over 30 sentient years of suffering being a virgin. Had I not succeeded then I would have CTB'd likely by end of 2019. Even though my goals are different, I see where you are coming from.
As for your points about goalposts, yes that is the sad reality about people who "pass the buck" or give the whole run-around of you'll get it at x goalpost, then when said goalpost comes around and it didn't pan out, fails, or didn't happen, they come up with yet another excuse (just like the example you gave with your goal, if fail to get it before 30, then it's mid-late 30's, then if that fails, then 40+ and beyond, ad nauseam). I hate it when others arbitrarily move goalposts and even moreso when they do so in a manner that is only deferring (I call it denial through deferment, (this thread talks about the 'passing the buck' issue, and this other one talks about denial through deferment).
 
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PI3.14

PI3.14

π
Oct 4, 2024
58
@PI3.14 I'm sorry to hear about your struggles and I can relate to a similar situation. Years ago when I was still a virgin, I vowed that I will not live to 30 if I didn't somehow (in any way shape or form) lose my virginity before my 30th birthday. Fortunately, I was able to do just that (also fortunate enough to because in 2020 the pandemic hit and all the mess that followed it). Even if I could get it at some future time (nothing is guaranteed of course), I didn't want to live over 30 sentient years of suffering being a virgin. Had I not succeeded then I would have CTB'd likely by end of 2019. Even though my goals are different, I see where you are coming from.
As for your points about goalposts, yes that is the sad reality about people who "pass the buck" or give the whole run-around of you'll get it at x goalpost, then when said goalpost comes around and it didn't pan out, fails, or didn't happen, they come up with yet another excuse (just like the example you gave with your goal, if fail to get it before 30, then it's mid-late 30's, then if that fails, then 40+ and beyond, ad nauseam). I hate it when others arbitrarily move goalposts and even moreso when they do so in a manner that is only deferring (I call it denial through deferment, (this thread talks about the 'passing the buck' issue, and this other one talks about denial through deferment).
I can lose my virginity if I want to anytime, since I live in europe. However, it's love that I'm looking for which makes it extremely difficult to me. I can control when and if I want to lose my virginity but I can't control when I will find love, if ever.

The thing is, I'm a perfectionist. I can't do it with someone whome I share no emotions with.

I hope to find love soon 🤞
 
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