Discussion Am I wrong?

[J F]

My wife and I just had. MASSIVE fight. She says that Suicide is ultimate a selfish act.

I told her she was full of shit. It's her that is ultimately selfish. When I ctb she will be forced to find a job since she hasn't worked in a long time. She will have to scale back her lifestyle of going to the gym, doing her hair and nails frequently etc.
Her whole world will be turned upside down and it has nothing to do with my well being. Just hers.

Instead of calling me selfish I told her she should try and help figure out why I would want to ctb and try to help. Instead she just calls me selfish.

Society has failed and continues to fail those of us who are seriously considering ctb and have successfully ctb.

Am I wrong? My wife thinks so.

 

[DepressionsAHo]

My wife and I just had. MASSIVE fight. She says that Suicide is ultimate a selfish act.

I told her she was full of shit. It's her that is ultimately selfish. When I ctb she will be forced to find a job since she hasn't worked in a long time. She will have to scale back her lifestyle of going to the gym, doing her hair and nails frequently etc.
Her whole world will be turned upside down and it has nothing to do with my well being. Just hers.

Instead of calling me selfish I told her she should try and help figure out why I would want to ctb and try to help. Instead she just calls me selfish.

Society has failed and continues to fail those of us who are seriously considering ctb and have successfully ctb.

Am I wrong? My wife thinks so.

Suicide is a hard thing for people to process
My sister when I broke down told Me it would be a selfish act to do
I don't think when people say it (loved ones that is) it's meant as malicious as it comes off to the suicidal. Did she SAY those things about the nails or was it you pointing out those things?
As for your ultimate question... That's hard to say yes or no to. Whether we like to admit it or not statistics show that around 90 something percent of people who attempt suicide don't do it again. For millions of people, antidepressants and therapy WORK and that's AWESOME, there are a few individuals in this world who no matter how hard they try, don't get better and choosing to end a lifetime of pain and suffering isn't selfish. It's them being kind to themselves

 

[lost_soul83]

My wife and I just had. MASSIVE fight. She says that Suicide is ultimate a selfish act.

I told her she was full of shit. It's her that is ultimately selfish. When I ctb she will be forced to find a job since she hasn't worked in a long time. She will have to scale back her lifestyle of going to the gym, doing her hair and nails frequently etc.
Her whole world will be turned upside down and it has nothing to do with my well being. Just hers.

Instead of calling me selfish I told her she should try and help figure out why I would want to ctb and try to help. Instead she just calls me selfish.

Society has failed and continues to fail those of us who are seriously considering ctb and have successfully ctb.

Am I wrong? My wife thinks so.

I think you're 100% right. She's the selfish one. All I can say is I understand how you feel and I'm sorry you feel this way. I wish I could make your wife understand.

 

[HappyEnding]

Suicide isn't selfish. Mourning the loss of a loved one is never easy but suicide definitely isn't selfish.

 

[Psilo]

For millions of people, antidepressants and therapy WORK and that's AWESOME, there are a few individuals in this world who no matter how hard they try, don't get better and choosing to end a lifetime of pain and suffering isn't selfish. It's them being kind to themselves

beautifuly said.

Killing oneself has nothing to do with cowardness, in fact it requires alot of self confidence and strength.

 

[Dead beat dad]

My wife and I just had. MASSIVE fight. She says that Suicide is ultimate a selfish act.

I told her she was full of shit. It's her that is ultimately selfish. When I ctb she will be forced to find a job since she hasn't worked in a long time. She will have to scale back her lifestyle of going to the gym, doing her hair and nails frequently etc.
Her whole world will be turned upside down and it has nothing to do with my well being. Just hers.

Instead of calling me selfish I told her she should try and help figure out why I would want to ctb and try to help. Instead she just calls me selfish.

Society has failed and continues to fail those of us who are seriously considering ctb and have successfully ctb.

Am I wrong? My wife thinks so.

You think you're right, you're wife thinks she's right, that doesn't necessarily make either of you wrong. Perhaps a missing piece of this puzzle is communication, understanding, patience and tolerance from both of you.
When I was rumbled in the act of trying to CTB when I was a teenager my mom went mental and called me selfish, the same accusation she levelled at my grandpoppa when he CTB not long before.
I'm sorry she felt that way but I knew how I felt and could understand my grandpoppa.
Ultimately if you're in that much pain with no hope left you may feel like you're actually doing your loved ones a favour by CTB.
It's about perspective.
I'm sorry you're in this riddle friend, I hope you find some light and peace.
DBD

 

[Deltrus]

Suicide is selfish, but living onwards, through suffering, so that the people around you can have their wellbeing preserved, is the pinnacle of selflessness.

If you live for as long as you can for other people, and then kill yourself when you can't bear it any longer, then the selfishness and selflessness kind of cancel out.

 

[J F]

Suicide is a hard thing for people to process
My sister when I broke down told Me it would be a selfish act to do
I don't think when people say it (loved ones that is) it's meant as malicious as it comes off to the suicidal. Did she SAY those things about the nails or was it you pointing out those things?
As for your ultimate question... That's hard to say yes or no to. Whether we like to admit it or not statistics show that around 90 something percent of people who attempt suicide don't do it again. For millions of people, antidepressants and therapy WORK and that's AWESOME, there are a few individuals in this world who no matter how hard they try, don't get better and choosing to end a lifetime of pain and suffering isn't selfish. It's them being kind to themselves

All of this is so true. Especially the last part. I have been on meds and going to therapy for years and it has not worked. I tried to end my pain and suffering through "normal" means and it isn't sticking for me. So you are absolutely right when you say it's me being kind to myself by wanting to ctb. Thank you.

I think you're 100% right. She's the selfish one. All I can say is I understand how you feel and I'm sorry you feel this way. I wish I could make your wife understand.

Thank you and I wish you could too.

beautifuly said.

Killing oneself has nothing to do with cowardness, in fact it requires alot of self confidence and strength.

Totally agree.

You think you're right, you're wife thinks she's right, that doesn't necessarily make either of you wrong. Perhaps a missing piece of this puzzle is communication, understanding, patience and tolerance from both of you.
When I was rumbled in the act of trying to CTB when I was a teenager my mom went mental and called me selfish, the same accusation she levelled at my grandpoppa when he CTB not long before.
I'm sorry she felt that way but I knew how I felt and could understand my grandpoppa.
Ultimately if you're in that much pain with no hope left you may feel like you're actually doing your loved ones a favour by CTB.
It's about perspective.
I'm sorry you're in this riddle friend, I hope you find some light and peace.
DBD

Thank you for this. I hope I find some light and peace as well.

Suicide is selfish, but living onwards, through suffering, so that the people around you can have their wellbeing preserved, is the pinnacle of selflessness.

If you live for as long as you can for other people, and then kill yourself when you can't bear it any longer, then the selfishness and selflessness kind of cancel out.

This is so brilliantly put especially "Living onwards through suffering for others well being is the pinnacle of selflessness". That is exactly what I have been doing for too long and like you say above I am no longer able to bear it anymore. It cancels out. Nice. Thanks for this.

 

[TAW122]

I would say it isn't selfish, and in fact, it is just as selfish (if not more) for others to expect one to stay alive just so they don't have to feel sad. They aren't considering the interests and values of the suicidal person, only their own. The only exception I could see to this would be if a person has a dependent such as children of their own, then in that case it would be selfish because the person chose to have children (biologically or adopted).

 

[Deltrus]

it is just as selfish (if not more) for others to expect one to stay alive just so they don't have to feel sad. They aren't considering the interests and values of the suicidal person, only their own.

When I'm angry, I often think like this.

In an ideal world people would not get to attached to things that are sure to end, they would empathize with people's suffering even though the cannot feel it. The would celebrate the end of one's life and respect one's choice to end it.

In reality people are stupid, low consciousness and fragile. They form bonds they cannot bear to have broken. Or they themselves break.

I'm not sure if I'm to blame for being weak and prone to suffering, or they are to blame for the same thing. I guess it is just an ugly situation to be in.

 

[vulgareconomics]

My mom used to say this to me when I was little. She had no idea I was suicidal. In any case, it made my suicide plans extremely expensive since I now want to take care of all the expenses and labor related to my death.

 

[memataporfavor]

I think this argument about it being selfish or not is completely pointless and typical of non empathetic people. I mean, so what if ctb is selfish? Selfishness is a human characteristic and you have every right to be selfish, mainly if you're in pain. People should try to understand the other's pain instead of passing stupid moral judgements. If you love something let it go, hah

 

[ZixivaldYrxes]

She says that Suicide is ultimate a selfish act.

I'm probably being a dick but this is one of those things where if someone has the necessary perspective to think this, I basically write them off. It really catches me really off-guard. Like WHAT? HOW? WHA-. It's totally unintuitive, it feels so inverted, and I can't even begin to approach spelling out what's wrong with it and why I feel so frustrated by it because I can't grasp it at all, that's how foreign it is. Like this idea or community that we're all sacrificing ourselves for is supposed to exist FOR US, not us for it. No, that's not even true, it IS us, and if one of us is hurting, then so is it! A social system that can't accommodate the basic needs of its constituents to the point where they literally want to end their existence is not a good system that's worth sustaining by sacrificing yourself to it. And this social system can be anything, a group of friends, society, family, anything- there is no reason why anyone should feel obligated to be a part of these systems when those systems no longer work for them. It's like we're being duped into believing in a "greater good" that actually serves no one at all and it's only people who can't see that, who think that the "greater good" is an independent entity that exists as something other than what is actually happening, who can think that suicide is selfish. Or even worse, people who believe that our collective suffering is actually somehow GOOD for us, like it's honorable or something. It just drives me up the f***ing wall. Of course, a lot of people probably just don't think about it that much, and that's fine, like whatever, you don't have to, and I guess I should be happy for you.

Although I can understand it in more intimate contexts, like when you have lost someone who's really close to you, or when you're dependent on someone and they nope out, or they're breaking a promise or something like that. But people who hold this as a general sociological opinion? Nah nah nah. Nah. No. No no. No.

All that being said, her calling it selfish might just be her way of going into denial, because it puts all of the responsibility on you and she doesn't have to think about it anymore, possibly because she literally can't given how much it would change her world and/or how painful it would be. Give her time and maybe she'll understand? Tell her that she's isolating you and that if she tries to understand you, you will try to understand her in turn? I don't know, but you can't always take things this emotionally charged at face value.

 

[I am ___________]

My wife and I just had. MASSIVE fight. She says that Suicide is ultimate a selfish act.

I told her she was full of shit. It's her that is ultimately selfish. When I ctb she will be forced to find a job since she hasn't worked in a long time. She will have to scale back her lifestyle of going to the gym, doing her hair and nails frequently etc.
Her whole world will be turned upside down and it has nothing to do with my well being. Just hers.

Instead of calling me selfish I told her she should try and help figure out why I would want to ctb and try to help. Instead she just calls me selfish.

Society has failed and continues to fail those of us who are seriously considering ctb and have successfully ctb.

Am I wrong? My wife thinks so.

You are not wrong at all. People are hypocrites, it is a lesson that is learned over time and only look out for themselves. Love does not exist, the only thing people love are the things you do for them/provide for them. In their eyes you are just a disposable pawn, a means to an end. That is truth. So you are not wrong, she is wrong and she will learn this lesson when you are no longer around to be used by her. In this world you have the user and the used, don't let somebody else use you or take advantage of you.

My wife and I just had. MASSIVE fight. She says that Suicide is ultimate a selfish act.

I told her she was full of shit. It's her that is ultimately selfish. When I ctb she will be forced to find a job since she hasn't worked in a long time. She will have to scale back her lifestyle of going to the gym, doing her hair and nails frequently etc.
Her whole world will be turned upside down and it has nothing to do with my well being. Just hers.

Instead of calling me selfish I told her she should try and help figure out why I would want to ctb and try to help. Instead she just calls me selfish.

Society has failed and continues to fail those of us who are seriously considering ctb and have successfully ctb.

Am I wrong? My wife thinks so.

reminds me of my uncle, he tossed the bitch aside and he became a lot happier in the end. In the end she proved his point right, and only wanted to use him... couldn't do a damn thing by herself.
If she is the main source of your depression then you need to get rid of her. She is a an adult, you have no responsibility nor obligation to continue supporting her. Ask yourself this: What has she ever done for you besides take? Has she ever given you anything? What is it that she has given you? Does it make you happy? Does she do anything for you on a daily basis?
If I were you I would plan out a divorce and proceed without her knowing.... then show her the papers and kick her ass out of your house.

 

[Divine Trinity]

Suicide is a hard thing for people to process
My sister when I broke down told Me it would be a selfish act to do
I don't think when people say it (loved ones that is) it's meant as malicious as it comes off to the suicidal. Did she SAY those things about the nails or was it you pointing out those things?
As for your ultimate question... That's hard to say yes or no to. Whether we like to admit it or not statistics show that around 90 something percent of people who attempt suicide don't do it again. For millions of people, antidepressants and therapy WORK and that's AWESOME, there are a few individuals in this world who no matter how hard they try, don't get better and choosing to end a lifetime of pain and suffering isn't selfish. It's them being kind to themselves

I doubt that one statistic from who knows what organization can accurately reflect how many people don't attempt again.

There's a pretty comprehensive list of studies showing that SSRI and/or therapy don't work (in the long-term, meaning +1 years after initial dosage), nevermind the fact that suicide is the 10th leading cause of death in the US, 2nd cause for those 14-25. In fact, SSRI's shouldn't even be legal, nobody has a clue what it actually does to the brain and giving drugs to people without knowing the effects has a name. Then there's the side effects/withdraw symptoms from drug x which range from CAUSING DEPRESSION to suicidal ideation and/or sudden death...

There are few things that set me off, and claiming psychiatric practices have/are/ever were effective is one of them. If there were magic pills that solved all our problems they'd be illegal.

You are not wrong at all. People are hypocrites, it is a lesson that is learned over time and only look out for themselves. Love does not exist, the only thing people love are the things you do for them/provide for them. In their eyes you are just a disposable pawn, a means to an end. That is truth. So you are not wrong, she is wrong and she will learn this lesson when you are no longer around to be used by her. In this world you have the user and the used, don't let somebody else use you or take advantage of you.


reminds me of my uncle, he tossed the bitch aside and he became a lot happier in the end. In the end she proved his point right, and only wanted to use him... couldn't do a damn thing by herself.
If she is the main source of your depression then you need to get rid of her. She is a an adult, you have no responsibility nor obligation to continue supporting her. Ask yourself this: What has she ever done for you besides take? Has she ever given you anything? What is it that she has given you? Does it make you happy? Does she do anything for you on a daily basis?
If I were you I would plan out a divorce and proceed without her knowing.... then show her the papers and kick her ass out of your house.

It's because people think like this that I'm here, for now at least...

 

[Its time its time]

My thoughts:

Context of suicide - Is it due to suffering from an illness? Or just trying to run away from a problem that can be fixed?

If it is the latter...
If you love your family - then it is selfish.
Because you'll cause years of unbareable pain to them. That's unconditional love.
Somtimes we must suck it up for the greater good of others - family.

If you don't have that family connection then it's easier to justify killing oneself.

 

[CursedForDisaster]

It really depends, I don't think suicide is selfish but it can be used in a selfish way...it's almost always rooted in pure self loathing though, not selfishness.

Some people just don't understand these feelings, some lie to themselves about them and others just don't talk about it at all, try not to take that personal and don't make it a reason to argue. You know how you feel, all you can do is talk to her and get personal. If it doesn't work out you've got a community here to vent to.

 

[J F]

I appreciate this thx

 

[Divine Trinity]

My thoughts:

Context of suicide - Is it due to suffering from an illness? Or just trying to run away from a problem that can be fixed?

If you don't have that family connection then it's easier to justify killing oneself.

Poverty can be fixed, but everyone you know will likely be long dead when/if it's ever fixed.

The Common Cold can be fixed once the immune system develops the antibodies to kill off the bacteria, but it'll mutate and you'll get sick again.

Hunger can be fixed by eating a half-cooked piece of chicken, but you'll probably be puking your guts out later then hungry again...
"Well that's life"

Exactly, that's why we're here, to end it.

 

[Deivis]

My wife and I just had. MASSIVE fight. She says that Suicide is ultimate a selfish act.

I told her she was full of shit. It's her that is ultimately selfish. When I ctb she will be forced to find a job since she hasn't worked in a long time.

Women are leeches. Always.

 

[J F]

Women are leeches. Always.

I can only speak about my wife and I have to agree with you there.

I think you're 100% right. She's the selfish one. All I can say is I understand how you feel and I'm sorry you feel this way. I wish I could make your wife understand.

So do I.

You are not wrong at all. People are hypocrites, it is a lesson that is learned over time and only look out for themselves. Love does not exist, the only thing people love are the things you do for them/provide for them. In their eyes you are just a disposable pawn, a means to an end. That is truth. So you are not wrong, she is wrong and she will learn this lesson when you are no longer around to be used by her. In this world you have the user and the used, don't let somebody else use you or take advantage of you.
I have been used for a long time. I remember reading somewhere that no human love is unconditional ESPECIALLY in marriage. If you do x for me I will do y and vice versa. And if it's not unconditional is it truly love? The book I read says that true love is unattainable in humans. Doesn't and will never exist. As long as you serve a purpose to someone you are valuable and if you become "useless" to them then you get thrown away metaphorically. In my case with my wife I am told I that am selfish, I don't truly love her, that I need to change my meds so that I can be more "functional" i.e serve my purpose to her. I need to change NOT her. I need to leave this bitch.

reminds me of my uncle, he tossed the bitch aside and he became a lot happier in the end. In the end she proved his point right, and only wanted to use him... couldn't do a damn thing by herself.
If she is the main source of your depression then you need to get rid of her. She is a an adult, you have no responsibility nor obligation to continue supporting her. Ask yourself this: What has she ever done for you besides take? Has she ever given you anything? What is it that she has given you? Does it make you happy? Does she do anything for you on a daily basis?
If I were you I would plan out a divorce and proceed without her knowing.... then show her the papers and kick her ass out of your house.

yeah I think I will do that.

 

[dandan]

my personal opinion: yes, thats a little selfish, ain't nothing wrong with it...

I'm 36yo and since early 20's I knew I would never get married as long as I have this thoughts, ideas..

you're married, she say's you're selfish, some of us think you're not...

we are like little vulnerable animals, wondering, thinking, judging, contemplating, etc...

I think you'll always be susceptible to change your opinion on whether you're selfish or not depending on what you hear or the argument in hand...

 

[Ashpac]

Youre in the right mate. People only want you to stay alive because of how they will feel when youre gone. They only care about their pain, not yours.
I learned that too well with every one i know when I told them I wanted to die.

Im not telling you to end your life by the way, im just saying what ive learned from my experiences.

 

[J F]

I appreciate this. Thx. That's how I feel too. It's always about them not you. Instead of trying figure out why you want to end it they just call you selfish and "you need to change your meds". I am not sure if she has no Idea, doesn't care, doesn't want to deal with it or a combination of the three or something else, all I know is I am getting tired of her bullshit.

 

[I am ___________]

That's the way this sick world and it's people operate, instead of trying to fix the problem at it's roots, they instead act like the problem does not exist and that it must be something else. They run away from the truth, constantly having to lie to themselves, and sweep it underneath the rug to only pretend it's not there. That is why I lost hope in things ever getting better, that is why I lost hope in humanity and people.

 

[Funkbunny]

Yes. What she said was selfish. But, why did you tell her in the first place? How would you expect her to react? One thing is clear, you told her to get a response, and you did.

Totally agree with ashpac.