frommolecules2stars
Born, survive, reproduce, die.
- Dec 23, 2024
- 23
Ah, alienation, the feeling that every human is guaranteed to feel. Naturally, under capitalism any member of any class is going to feel the alienation from capital. But I'm not here to talk about alienation in the context of it being directly tied to capital, rather, a new way alienation emerges when a person goes against what is to be done for their "mental health." If you want to understand more about alienation in an economic sense, read Marx. I'm here to discuss suicide.
Here I will quote @Rymrgand to begin:
This individual was defending one of their friends, a person who was well known on SaSu. I was reading this thread and it sparked me to discuss the alienation that occurs when an individual becomes what society defines as depressed or mentally ill.
Humans are naturally inclined to be delusional for survival's sake. And I would argue that most animals are, too. It is a part of that survival instinct to avoid sensations of discomfort and pain. And in our modern world, obeying the status quo is an example of that.
Simply put, people do not want to hear about struggles. They know they happen, they witness them, but they do not want to acknowledge them past the fact it could be considered a tragedy. This is evident when someone is trying to connect with another person by discussing traumatic experiences or negative emotions and is met with "go to therapy/you need help/you're crazy/etc." Our social bonds as a society have been alienated in this way when certain topics are labeled as morally wrong or taboo. They are further alienated when we begin to pathologize reactions to suffering and harsh material conditions (see: "why do you think their depression impaired their ability to reason?" in reply to someone trying to demean a person's philosophical stance based on their mental condition).
When a person has developed such a different view on life than what is considered to be the norm, who do they turn to? Who do they talk to? Are they able to connect with their communities without feeling as if they have to fake everything they say?
This leads to alienation. The way alienation manifests is described by wider society as isolation, ostracization and discrimination, so I am sure you all are familiar with it. Emotional responses would be loneliness, the feeling of being a burden, unbelongingness, guilt, shame and, yes, suicidalness.
So, it is indeed an infinite feedback loop. A person suffers from alienation that already occurs from capital and their material conditions. This can lead to the rational decision to observe the world and come to a nihilistic conclusion. Taking a different position than what capitalism spews out (living and experiencing alienation for more labor) and being open about it leads to further alienation when you are classified as mentally ill and defective as a person. Or, alternatively, not being open about your position and having to participate in said society causes further alienation because of lack of true connection. This alienation leads to suicidalness and nihilism. The cycle repeats.
SaSu is a good forum to confront this alienation, but it is no where close to ever fixing the fundamental issue in the first place. I teeter on the line constantly of revolutionary optimism and suicidal defeatism. Actually- I lied, I'm almost always on the side of suicidal defeatism.
Life is inherent suffering without an inherent meaning. Humans need meaning to survive and thrive. Humans irrationally create pseudomeanings in order to be healthy. Humans who go against these meanings feel intense alienation from their society and even their own SI's. They become rational, but at what cost?
We are all here to figure out if we will pay that price or not.
Here I will quote @Rymrgand to begin:
This individual was defending one of their friends, a person who was well known on SaSu. I was reading this thread and it sparked me to discuss the alienation that occurs when an individual becomes what society defines as depressed or mentally ill.
Humans are naturally inclined to be delusional for survival's sake. And I would argue that most animals are, too. It is a part of that survival instinct to avoid sensations of discomfort and pain. And in our modern world, obeying the status quo is an example of that.
Simply put, people do not want to hear about struggles. They know they happen, they witness them, but they do not want to acknowledge them past the fact it could be considered a tragedy. This is evident when someone is trying to connect with another person by discussing traumatic experiences or negative emotions and is met with "go to therapy/you need help/you're crazy/etc." Our social bonds as a society have been alienated in this way when certain topics are labeled as morally wrong or taboo. They are further alienated when we begin to pathologize reactions to suffering and harsh material conditions (see: "why do you think their depression impaired their ability to reason?" in reply to someone trying to demean a person's philosophical stance based on their mental condition).
When a person has developed such a different view on life than what is considered to be the norm, who do they turn to? Who do they talk to? Are they able to connect with their communities without feeling as if they have to fake everything they say?
This leads to alienation. The way alienation manifests is described by wider society as isolation, ostracization and discrimination, so I am sure you all are familiar with it. Emotional responses would be loneliness, the feeling of being a burden, unbelongingness, guilt, shame and, yes, suicidalness.
So, it is indeed an infinite feedback loop. A person suffers from alienation that already occurs from capital and their material conditions. This can lead to the rational decision to observe the world and come to a nihilistic conclusion. Taking a different position than what capitalism spews out (living and experiencing alienation for more labor) and being open about it leads to further alienation when you are classified as mentally ill and defective as a person. Or, alternatively, not being open about your position and having to participate in said society causes further alienation because of lack of true connection. This alienation leads to suicidalness and nihilism. The cycle repeats.
SaSu is a good forum to confront this alienation, but it is no where close to ever fixing the fundamental issue in the first place. I teeter on the line constantly of revolutionary optimism and suicidal defeatism. Actually- I lied, I'm almost always on the side of suicidal defeatism.
Life is inherent suffering without an inherent meaning. Humans need meaning to survive and thrive. Humans irrationally create pseudomeanings in order to be healthy. Humans who go against these meanings feel intense alienation from their society and even their own SI's. They become rational, but at what cost?
We are all here to figure out if we will pay that price or not.
