Advice for stabilizing shotgun

[mb0324]

Hi, I live in Texas and have easy access to shotguns. I am planning on buying a short barrel shotgun for my final day so I can easily pull the trigger myself. I have never shot a gun but can receive training at the gun store before purchase. I know there will be a lot of recoil so I want to ensure that the gun is stabilized and the recoil doesn't interfere with my death... even though I know with a shotgun the chances of that happening are minimal. With that said, does anyone have any advice how to best stabilize a shotgun to keep it stable? I plan to go right through the back of my mouth to get the medulla oblongata.

 

[Anonymous1945]

Hi, I live in Texas and have easy access to shotguns. I am planning on buying a short barrel shotgun for my final day so I can easily pull the trigger myself. I have never shot a gun but can receive training at the gun store before purchase. I know there will be a lot of recoil so I want to ensure that the gun is stabilized and the recoil doesn't interfere with my death... even though I know with a shotgun the chances of that happening are minimal. With that said, does anyone have any advice how to best stabilize a shotgun to keep it stable? I plan to go right through the back of my mouth to get the medulla oblongata.

The recoil shouldn't be too much of an issue if you properly brace the gun against the floor.

I've found a huge amount of debate on what shotguns work best and what loads, double OT buck, or 00-Buck is a preffered choice by many, but some have said slugs are better since a slug is really just a giant bullet.

Bonus points for slugs because that rifled hollow-point slugs are very common, but they also cost a lot, useally over a dollar per round, but seeing what your intent is it shouldn't make a difference.

As for barrel length, this is a difficult topic, shotguns must have a barrel of eighteen of more inches to be legally available for purchase or owned in the U.S.A, and unfortunately in Texas, too. And I'll detail all complications for this aswell.

You can buy shot-pistols, however, these cannot be sold with a stock, so no form of bracing with be possible, essentially think something along the lines of the Diablo shot-pistols. Some more downsides other than stability is muzzle velocity, which needs to be roughly 450FPS to be lethal for soft organs, bones would likely completely stop such a shot, especially with how reinforced the skull is.

the main benefit to smaller shotguns is a wider spread to guarantee something important gets hit, but something like an SBS, or Short Barreled Shotgun is heavily regulated by the NFA. If you want one you'll need to pay an additional $750 charge and undergo a waiting period for your form to clear. Theres no real reason to use an SBS unless you want the spread to be roughly 12-20% more aggressive. This is a downside for slugs of all kind, and only will benefit buckshot. And as for birshot, that shouldn't even be considered, about 5% of all shotgun suicides fail, and disastrously, and my personal guess is birshot may attribute to at least 0.5% of those failures.

Full length shotguns may just be the best choice because it has enough barrel length to make the projectile, or projectile clusters go supersonic. There is pretty much a 0% chance of failing IF you aim it right, which you won't. You can't see the sights of the firearm and thus you're taking a blind guess.

In the mouth is apparently the only "safe" way to kill yourself with a gun since the point is apparently to strike the brain-stem and sever it causing almost guaranteed instant death.

There are guides for shot placement, but i don't trust any of them. If the attempt fails you're gonna be so fucked up that whatever you're dealing with now will be a bed of roses.

And with an at least 5% chance of failing, which would be catastrophic it's genuinely not worth the risk.

And 5% isn't even right, it's either a 100% chance of failure, or a 0% chance.

I'm aware the forum strictly is against discouraging suicide, and i personally would love nothing more than to die, i tried pulling the trigger earlier today, but I'm not much of a gambler even though i had the best odds with a full length and buck, i just couldn't with the risk of becoming a veggitable, this is coming from an actual gun fanatic with more knowledge on ballistics than most, i don't recommend you try. I have no clue what you're going through, but it's not as bad as a failure, i can guarantee that, I've been in such mental agony recently that I've almost thrown up. I'll take my current predicament over being lobotomiesed.


Human bodies were meant to be resilient, even a direct 500kg bomb might fail as a method, and the truth is that either you fail or you don't, theres no in-between you're either the one being lowered into a grave, or the one being lowered onto an electric wheelchair.



If you do try, hopefully you find the end you were looking for and don't become retarded as a fucking carrot.

 

[mb0324]

Thank you for your thoughtful response. I am curious... given your extensive knowledge of firearms and hesitancy to use on yourself with everything you know, do you have another preferred method to die if you do decide to try again?

 

[Eudaimonic]

The recoil shouldn't be too much of an issue if you properly brace the gun against the floor.

I've found a huge amount of debate on what shotguns work best and what loads, double OT buck, or 00-Buck is a preffered choice by many, but some have said slugs are better since a slug is really just a giant bullet.

Bonus points for slugs because that rifled hollow-point slugs are very common, but they also cost a lot, useally over a dollar per round, but seeing what your intent is it shouldn't make a difference.

As for barrel length, this is a difficult topic, shotguns must have a barrel of eighteen of more inches to be legally available for purchase or owned in the U.S.A, and unfortunately in Texas, too. And I'll detail all complications for this aswell.

You can buy shot-pistols, however, these cannot be sold with a stock, so no form of bracing with be possible, essentially think something along the lines of the Diablo shot-pistols. Some more downsides other than stability is muzzle velocity, which needs to be roughly 450FPS to be lethal for soft organs, bones would likely completely stop such a shot, especially with how reinforced the skull is.

the main benefit to smaller shotguns is a wider spread to guarantee something important gets hit, but something like an SBS, or Short Barreled Shotgun is heavily regulated by the NFA. If you want one you'll need to pay an additional $750 charge and undergo a waiting period for your form to clear. Theres no real reason to use an SBS unless you want the spread to be roughly 12-20% more aggressive. This is a downside for slugs of all kind, and only will benefit buckshot. And as for birshot, that shouldn't even be considered, about 5% of all shotgun suicides fail, and disastrously, and my personal guess is birshot may attribute to at least 0.5% of those failures.

Full length shotguns may just be the best choice because it has enough barrel length to make the projectile, or projectile clusters go supersonic. There is pretty much a 0% chance of failing IF you aim it right, which you won't. You can't see the sights of the firearm and thus you're taking a blind guess.

In the mouth is apparently the only "safe" way to kill yourself with a gun since the point is apparently to strike the brain-stem and sever it causing almost guaranteed instant death.

There are guides for shot placement, but i don't trust any of them. If the attempt fails you're gonna be so fucked up that whatever you're dealing with now will be a bed of roses.

And with an at least 5% chance of failing, which would be catastrophic it's genuinely not worth the risk.

And 5% isn't even right, it's either a 100% chance of failure, or a 0% chance.

I'm aware the forum strictly is against discouraging suicide, and i personally would love nothing more than to die, i tried pulling the trigger earlier today, but I'm not much of a gambler even though i had the best odds with a full length and buck, i just couldn't with the risk of becoming a veggitable, this is coming from an actual gun fanatic with more knowledge on ballistics than most, i don't recommend you try. I have no clue what you're going through, but it's not as bad as a failure, i can guarantee that, I've been in such mental agony recently that I've almost thrown up. I'll take my current predicament over being lobotomiesed.


Human bodies were meant to be resilient, even a direct 500kg bomb might fail as a method, and the truth is that either you fail or you don't, theres no in-between you're either the one being lowered into a grave, or the one being lowered onto an electric wheelchair.



If you do try, hopefully you find the end you were looking for and don't become retarded as a fucking carrot.

So, first things first I want to acknowledge that you clearly know a lot about guns and that you raised some good points, particularly about the barrel length. However, I take issue with some of the things you said, and I'd be remiss not to point them out, as what you have written may dissuade people from using a method that is essentially the most reliable, painless, rapid, and quite honestly least technical one that a person can reasonably access without engaging in illegal or immoral behavior.

In Geo Stone's book, "Suicide and Attempted Suicide," there is a chart showing a 1% chance of survival for attempted-suicide gunshot wound to the head (that's not even controlling for where in the head the person was shot/if it was intraoral, the type of bullets used, the gauge of the shotgun, time until rescue, etc.). Moreover, you can failsafe this method by doing it in a river so that in the event you--somehow, against all odds--fail, the body will be washed away, and you will drown regardless. Alternatively, you could do it near the edge of a high structure so that when you collapse from the shot you will fall to your death; you could even combine these by doing it on a sufficiently high structure above a body of water). You could also take blood thinners preemptively to increase the chances of bleeding out, so there's that as well.

I don't quite understand why you don't trust any of the guides on shot placement. You can practice aiming with a mirror, and as long as you are aiming roughly at where the brainstem (ideally, the medulla oblongata; although, the upper spinal cord should also work, afaik) should be, I see no reason why you won't die unless the gun outright malfunctions or you flinch HORRIBLY. Afaik, hitting the brainstem is not even strictly necessary; causing massive cerebral blood loss through arterial destruction should also suffice, but to be safest it is no doubt optimal to hit the brainstem/medulla oblongata.

At any rate, the only practical reason I can see to forego this method (assuming one can access it - meaning right location and that one can afford it and conceal it from others) is if it is simply too violent for one. But personally, if I had a shotgun I would (at least attempt to) do it, as (IMO) the essentially nonexistent risk of ending up alive but with severe brain damage, paralysis, or locked-in syndrome - combined with the alluring effect of lights out (i.e., no fever dreams like you might get with certain methods that rely on gradual anoxic hypoxia as a means of death) - trumps the gory and displeasing aesthetics that authorities and survivors must contend with. In fact, the need for individuals to resort to such methods to avoid risking fates worse than death is an artifact of the suicide prohibition, really, but I digress.

Re surviving a 500 kg bomb - no, that's not happening if it's anywhere near the brain when it goes off.

 

[mb0324]

So, first things first I want to acknowledge that you clearly know a lot about guns and that you raised some good points, particularly about the barrel length. However, I couldn't help but notice a few errors in your reasoning that I'd be remiss not to point out, as what you have written may dissuade people from using a method that is essentially the most reliable, painless, rapid, and quite honestly least technical one that a person can reasonably access without engaging in illegal or immoral behavior.

In Geo Stone's book, "Suicide and Attempted Suicide," there is a chart showing a 1% chance of survival for attempted-suicide gunshot wound to the head (that's not even controlling for where in the head the person was shot/if it was intraoral, the type of bullets used, the gauge of the shotgun, time until rescue, etc.). Moreover, you can failsafe this method by doing it in a river so that in the event you--somehow, against all odds--fail, the body will be washed away, and you will drown regardless. Alternatively, you could do it near the edge of a high structure so that when you collapse from the shot you will fall to your death; you could even combine these by doing it on a sufficiently high structure above a body of water). You could also take blood thinners preemptively to increase the chances of bleeding out, so there's that as well.

I don't quite understand why you don't trust any of the guides on shot placement. You can practice aiming with a mirror, and as long as you are aiming roughly at where the brainstem (ideally, the medulla oblongata; although, the upper spinal cord should also work, afaik) should be, I see no reason why you won't die unless the gun outright malfunctions or you flinch HORRIBLY. Afaik, hitting the brainstem is not even strictly necessary; causing massive cerebral blood loss through arterial destruction should also suffice, but to be safest it is no doubt optimal to hit the brainstem/medulla oblongata.

At any rate, the only practical reason I can see to forego the method (assuming one can access it - meaning right location and that one can afford it and conceal it from others) is if it is simply too violent for them. But personally, if I had a shotgun I would (at least attempt to) do it, as (IMO) the essentially nonexistent risk of ending up alive but with severe brain damage, paralysis, or locked-in syndrome - combined with the alluring effect of lights out (i.e., no fever dreams like you might get with certain methods that rely on gradual anoxic hypoxia as a means of death) - trumps the gory and displeasing aesthetics that authorities and survivors must contend with. In fact, the need for individuals to resort to such methods to avoid risking fates worse than death is an artifact of the suicide prohibition, really, but I digress.

Re surviving a 500 kg bomb - no, that's not happening if it's anywhere near the brain when it goes off.

I very much appreciate you both. The more I read the more I do see that the shotgun is a certain fail safe, especially with intra-oral placement. It also appears to be the least painful method to go, with near instantaneous death. I am still going day by day, but the comfort of knowing I have the easy access to such a successful, painless method is reassuring. Thank you Eudalmonic for your insights.

 

[Eudaimonic]

I very much appreciate you both. The more I read the more I do see that the shotgun is a certain fail safe, especially with intra-oral placement. It also appears to be the least painful method to go, with near instantaneous death. I am still going day by day, but the comfort of knowing I have the easy access to such a successful, painless method is reassuring. Thank you Eudalmonic for your insights.

In all honesty I'm a bit envious that you have such easy access. Getting a gun where I live is a real hassle, but at least it'll be doable in the near future if I choose to go that route.

 

[fallingasl33p]

Sadly I'm pretty sure there's enough people that have livestreamed themselves going through with this method for you to get an idea of the specs you'll need.

 

[JealousOfTheElderly]

Couldn't you (or I) accomplish the same with a 9 mm handgun? Point it in your mouth and fire up towards the roof of your skull? Or have too many failed using a 9 mm?

 

[locked*n*loaded]

By the time you squeeze the trigger, the shot will have already been delivered to target, so recoil really isn't an issue. For stablizing, I would sit on the edge of a chair facing the corner in a room and place the stock right in the corner. Lean forward a little, put the barrel in your mouth, and reach down and squeeze the trigger. That's just me though.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

Couldn't you (or I) accomplish the same with a 9 mm handgun? Point it in your mouth and fire up towards the roof of your skull? Or have too many failed using a 9 mm?

i haven't seen any studys of a 9mm, there could be . imo i find it hard to believe someone could survive a shot 2 inches inside the mouth pointed up from a 9mm handgun or a shotgun

i would use a .300 win mag with around a 200 grain bonded or ttsx bullet in the mouth pointed up. below see ammo has 3506 foot pounds of energy , 2810 feet per second . compared to a 9mm handgun could have 400 foot pounds energy. 3506 compared to 400 .

9mm Ballistics Chart | Ballistics 101

Federal Premium Terminal Ascent 300 Winchester Mag Ammo 200 Grain

Federal Premium Terminal Ascent Ammunition allows you to go beyond what you ever thought possible. Any hunt. Any range. Bonded construction penetrates...

www.midwayusa.com

Grain Weight	200 Grains
Quantity	20 Round
Muzzle Velocity	2810 Feet Per Second
Muzzle Energy	3506 Foot Pounds

i pasted some text from this study. it says all gauges of shotgun in the mouth produced extensive damage, the 12 gauge bursting the head 74% of the time. "all shotgun wounds in the mouth produced extensive internal destruction involving facial bones,basal skull, calvarium, and brain."

Comparison of Contact Shotgun Wounds of the Head ... - Library

Comparison of Contact Shotgun Wounds of the Head ... - Library

www.yumpu.com

Table 3 compares the differences
in skin laceration patterns between these two gauges. Of the 12
gauge wounds entering the mouth, 28 (74%) caused bursting of
the head that extended into the level of the scalp. However, of the
20 gauge mouth wounds, only 1 (9%) caused lacerations that
reached the scalp. These differences are significant (P < .001).
Conversely, the external head remained intact, with at most perioral
lacerations, in only 3 cases of the 12 gauge wounds (8%), while
6 (55%) of the 20 gauge wounds left the external head intact.
These results are also statistically significant (P < .001). Further-
more, fully 91% of the 20 gauge wounds caused lacerations no
higher than the face, while only 16% of 12 gauge wounds had
lacerations limited to the face. Regardless of the presence or
absence of external injuries, all shotgun wounds in the mouth
produced extensive internal destruction involving facial bones,
basal skull, calvarium, and brain. Hence, the differences between
wounds from 12 gauge and 20 gauge shotguns depended on
whether or not the integument remained intact.
The three intraoral wounds with 16 gauge shotguns appeared
intermediate between those of 12 gauge and 20 gauge shotguns.
One of these caused no lacerations beyond the mouth, one caused
face lacerations only, and one produced bursting with lacerations
of face, forehead, and scalp.
Although the number of different gauge shotgun wounds at sites
other than the mouth were not sufficient to allow a statistical
comparison, there were apparent differences according to gauge.
For the submental wounds, 12 gauge shotguns caused lacerations
that extended to the forehead or scalp in 8 of 11 cases, while the
sole 20 gauge submental wound had lacerations limited to the
face. For wounds entering the forehead, scalp, or temple, 12 gauge
shotguns produced extensive lacerations in all 11 cases, whereas
similarly placed wounds from 20 gauge weapons had lacerations
limited to the entrance site in 1 of 3 cases. Also in contrast to the
12 gauge wounds, 2 of 6 .410 shotgun wounds had lacerations
limited to the entrance site. Overall, these data show that 12 gauge
shotguns, on average, cause more extensive lacerations and a
greater frequency of bursting of the head when compared to the
smaller gauge weapons.

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

You don´t have to care about the recoil, the projectile has left the barrel long before the recoil caused a relevant movement.