A shift in perspective that may help to accomplish ctb, or anything else one seeks to attain

[GoodPersonEffed]

I recently re-watched Brené Brown's TED talk on vulnerability.

She made the analogy of a gladiator showing up to the arena.

In order to achieve something, one has to show up. It takes courageous vulnerability.

I take this a bit further: one needs to be prepared to face the battle, and if they want to be successful, it's best to plan, prepare, train, and also to prepare for all foreseeable eventualities if failure is the result.

One can't achieve what one wants -- one can't win -- if one doesn't show up, and it takes courageous vulnerability to do so. There is always the possibility of failure, but as she says, if one fails, they fail daring greatly.

I think that mindset helps increase confidence and capability, and allows for resilience and recovery if the effort fails. One can learn from the experience and, when they're ready, try again should that still be the goal, now better prepared than before, or cognizant of better goals. Whether they conquer or fail, either way, they are a victor.

Showing up to SS requires, to me, courageous vulnerability. Asking for input means being seen. It can be scary, one may take hits, but it can also garner great rewards.



On a related note that applies to the forum as well as to real life, she says that being vulnerable and showing up to the arena means being seen. Pay attention to who's in what seats. There are always people in the cheap seats who do nothing but criticize and just want to knock down one and their efforts. There are people in the more expensive seats who offer constructive criticism to help one meet their goals. And then there are the seats with the people who cheer one on.

She recommends to invite those they want to show up for them -- I further that by saying, give them comp tickets in the front row so they can be heard over all the rest. Send them a PM, tag them, approach them for their perspective. Just make sure they're truly on your side and not just blowing smoke up your gladiator skirts to make you feel better about doing something that makes you prone to failure. Do they stroke you, or do they help you stay on a straight path?

If one is all about the outward presentation, it doesn't help if someone says, "Yeah, that skirt looks good on you," or "That's a mighty fine looking sword, wield it! (Never mind that you don't have a clue how.)"

Those who criticize and knock down, Brené says to tell them to offer suggestions or shut up. Their criticism is cheap and not welcome. I would take that further and say one may do better to ignore them. And even further, to recognize there are those who egg someone on even as they recognize one is unprepared and destined to fail, and it's all about their amusement. They're called trolls, narcissists, sociopaths, bored, etc. I say, fuck them, they don't matter to me any more than I matter to them.

As for those in the better seats, especially those who are constructive before, during, and after showing up, I think of them like coaches. I am grateful for them, and I'm glad when they sit more closely to me and don't try to take over for me, but offer valuable support so that I can accomplish for myself what I seek.



Thoughts?

 

[Aap]

Beware the echo chamber

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Beware the echo chamber

Care to elaborate? That could mean different things. I'd rather go to the source and ask for clarification than try to figure it out.

 

[C_F]

I've faced many battles but personally came here to SS because I've lost the war.

 

[AcornUnderground]

Yes this is a tough one. I don't feel like a gladiator and I don't feel like accomplishing suicide is winning anything. I don't know if too many people really WANT to die. To me, it feels like a huge loss. It's showing up to my sentencing. It's losing everything, even in the face of tortuous pain - it's still the end of hope, the book is closed, The End and you lost the game. That's how it feels to me.

Yes this is a tough one. I don't feel like a gladiator and I don't feel like accomplishing suicide is winning anything. I don't know if too many people really WANT to die. To me, it feels like a huge loss. It's showing up to my sentencing. It's losing everything, even in the face of tortuous pain - it's still the end of hope, the book is closed, The End and you lost the game. That's how it feels to me.

This does, however, remind me of how I approached my divorce and it was incredibly helpful. I imagined the challenge ahead and assembled what I called to myself my "Dream Team" - the core people I needed to lean on to get through. It was very effective because I failed to get divorced the first time and this made the second attempt much easier.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

I didn't mean for folks to get caught up in the gladiator analogy! My point was that life is battle, things rarely just fall in our laps, so if there's something we want, we have to show up to the arena. We have to show up for what we want.

Someone is always going to fight us or try to knock us down when we want something, even folks on SS, though maybe with good intentions, while a few others just seem to be eating popcorn or playing a totally different game than what this space is intended for, which is NOT a game!

Even SI fights us, or a heartfelt desire to live in spite of things being insurmountable, even if we're in a place of surrender. Such things that brought us to this point fought us too, but it's not because we didn't dare greatly, they just happened to win a battle, even if we didn't sign up for it -- they showed up into our arenas uninvited, or made them arenas when they were not.

It sucks that we still have to fight at the end, because as much as we want to, we can't just lay down and die. We have to show up to get N, or acceptance from Pegasos or Dignitas, or to buy SN. Just showing up is hard, yet you've done that, @AcornUnderground, with getting assisted euthanasia, and so have you, @C_F, by showing up to SS, both of you to get something you want/need. You entered those arenas, and in each, you are seen by others...even if you'd rather not. Who the fuck wants to be vulnerable? And how often can we get our needs met if we're not vulnerable? It takes courage to move forward with vulnerability, it can screw us, but in working with it, we can sometimes reap great rewards. And if we fail, we failed having dared greatly. We truly have more balls and courage than we know.

All of that is why I was thinking of a perception shift, such as having had the courageous vulnerability to ask for help, and showing up and daring greatly, even if you don't get what you sought, even if in the very act of ctb, you show up for that and dare greatly again, and hopefully for the last time. But if it fails, one can know they did something few others are capable of, who think they have so much but that can always be ripped away. Facing the possibility of suicide is hard, doing it even harder, yet both can be easier with a shift in perception, especially if one feels capable, calm, and brave. I'm not pro-suicide nor encouraging it, only encouraging folks who need it, should suicide be their choice, or is the best solution of all possible and shitty solutions. The latter is my situation. I need courage for that. I've shown up to the arena and I'm getting prepared, same as I would for a career or a job interview or getting help for something I can't accomplish on my own.

It takes great courage to ctb. It is not the easy way out. It's fucking hard. Needing can be very hard.

Anyhow, not trying to convince you! If you do not want this perspective, then I would never push it on you. I just felt that I wanted to clarify. I sincerely thank you for sharing your thoughts.

 

[Brackenshire]

I have just found the Brene Brown talks

 

[disconnection]

This analogy just doesn't work for me. Not saying killing yourself isn't hard - it obviously is or we'd all be dead already! But vulnerability is something else - that showing up and being seen? It's about being open to the possibility of rejection and is therefore a purely interpersonal concept. Suicide is by its nature a solitary act, which means I simply can't see it as 'showing up' or 'daring greatly'.

I think it is interesting to draw comparisons with the types on people on the forum but that's more to do with character typing than anything else. Interesting though and Brene is certainly someone who got me through a lot of hard shit so I totally understand why invoking her would be a comforting idea right about now!

 

[Soul]

For what they're worth, here are a couple of perspective-shifting techniques I've read about:

1. Rebrand anxiety as excitement, trepidation as eager anticipation. The feelings are physically similar, so it's not hard to switch from "I'm scared to ask my doctor for a propranolol scrip" to "I'm eager to ask her for that scrip". I look forward to swallowing my SN; I'm eager to puke and drink a second batch. I am!

2. The SuperHero Stance - hands on hips, shoulders back, chin up, gaze elevated, breathing heroically deep and strong - isn't just pretending to be mighty. It strengthens us. Good air in, and all that.

These are just tiny gimmicks anyone can use to nudge ourselves into a direction we want to head - but there are moments when every little bit helps.

 

[AcornUnderground]

I didn't mean for folks to get caught up in the gladiator analogy! My point was that life is battle, things rarely just fall in our laps, so if there's something we want, we have to show up to the arena. We have to show up for what we want.

Someone is always going to fight us or try to knock us down when we want something, even folks on SS, though maybe with good intentions, while a few others just seem to be eating popcorn or playing a totally different game than what this space is intended for, which is NOT a game!

Even SI fights us, or a heartfelt desire to live in spite of things being insurmountable, even if we're in a place of surrender. Such things that brought us to this point fought us too, but it's not because we didn't dare greatly, they just happened to win a battle, even if we didn't sign up for it -- they showed up into our arenas uninvited, or made them arenas when they were not.

It sucks that we still have to fight at the end, because as much as we want to, we can't just lay down and die. We have to show up to get N, or acceptance from Pegasos or Dignitas, or to buy SN. Just showing up is hard, yet you've done that, @AcornUnderground, with getting assisted euthanasia, and so have you, @C_F, by showing up to SS, both of you to get something you want/need. You entered those arenas, and in each, you are seen by others...even if you'd rather not. Who the fuck wants to be vulnerable? And how often can we get our needs met if we're not vulnerable? It takes courage to move forward with vulnerability, it can screw us, but in working with it, we can sometimes reap great rewards. And if we fail, we failed having dared greatly. We truly have more balls and courage than we know.

All of that is why I was thinking of a perception shift, such as having had the courageous vulnerability to ask for help, and showing up and daring greatly, even if you don't get what you sought, even if in the very act of ctb, you show up for that and dare greatly again, and hopefully for the last time. But if it falls, one can know they did something few others are capable of, who think they have so much but that can always be ripped away. Facing the possibility of suicide is hard, doing it even harder, yet both can be easier with a shift in perception, especially if one feels capable, calm, and brave. I'm not pro-suicide nor encouraging it, only encouraging folks who need it, should suicide be their choice, or is the best solution of all possible and shitty solutions. The latter is my situation. I need courage for that. I've shown up to the arena and I'm getting prepared, same as I would for a career or a job interview or getting help for something I can't accomplish on my own.

It takes great courage to ctb. It is not the easy way out. It's fucking hard. Needing can be very hard.

Anyhow, not trying to convince you! If you do not want this perspective, then I would never push it on you. I just felt that I wanted to clarify. I sincerely thank you for sharing your thoughts.

A timely post @GoodPersonEffed - I just finished booking my travel and hotels for the long journey to die in Switzerland. It is surreal, just over a year ago I traveled extensively for work - sick but functional then -and looked forward to booking trips with my partner. In fact, we had just won a trip to Italy when I fell very ill and never was able to make it, or anywhere with him for that matter. Here I am tonight, booking a nightmare European vacation with a one way ticket for me. Booking his very lonely travel home. It is still a truth that I can't comprehend - I am going in a few weeks, I will die. I won't come home. The disastrous fallout - I am well loved by a beautiful family, children, partner and friends. You are so right - we have to show up, even when it is the very hardest thing we will ever do, and never wanted. I don't know how I will show up. I am pretty good at being calm, capable, and brave. It is hard to do with all of this physical pain and a maternal devotion that is going to destroy my soul. Against all instincts, I have to show up.

Speaking of needing and vulnerability, I just started accepting those recently. First, I had to admit that I could no longer go to the grocery store, doctor appointments, or kid events. A month ago, I announced to my partner that I couldn't see people anymore outside of my children and him in my home. I could no longer go to any dinners at his parents, I could have no friends drop by. Just this week, I admitted that I needed help, I could not be alone, and it was going to be a hell of a ride to get me to the end. I've had to end conversations that I can't bear to have, turn off the TV when I can't handle people and their normal lives, and even tell my children - I can't do it. I am sorry. I am sick. I have known for a full year my fate. I could feel the disease in my body and it's trajectory. I knew where it would go. I've showed up anyway - to doctors, naturopaths, chiropractors, handfuls of fellow patients, tried every alternative treatment there is - knowing what I already knew. I put on a face for the children at every soccer and basketball game, every craft I made in the classroom, every meeting with the teacher - knowing it was not sustainable, trying anyway, hiding incredible pain.

I have reached the point of accepting that I won't recover, there is no sustainable life, and I need help getting there. I have admitted that I have no idea how I am going to leave this world, the ones I love, the children behind. I have acknowledged that my staying is not an option - it really is not in any capacity, physically or financially. I know that my being alive would be preferred but ultimately not the right choice for my children. I have a long way to go in the next two weeks, with much to face that I don't have the physical and emotional strength for. Your perspective will be helpful in facing those times. I will never win, but I will show up.

There is still bravery in accepting defeat. In fact, it was fightingsioux that told me once: "When defeat is inevitable it is wisest to yield." - Lao Tzu

There is a sense of bravery in showing up, you are right, even to face defeat.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

A timely post @GoodPersonEffed - I just finished booking my travel and hotels for the long journey to die in Switzerland. It is surreal, just over a year ago I traveled extensively for work - sick but functional then -and looked forward to booking trips with my partner. In fact, we had just won a trip to Italy when I fell very ill and never was able to make it, or anywhere with him for that matter. Here I am tonight, booking a nightmare European vacation with a one way ticket for me. Booking his very lonely travel home. It is still a truth that I can't comprehend - I am going in a few weeks, I will die. I won't come home. The disastrous fallout - I am well loved by a beautiful family, children, partner and friends. You are so right - we have to show up, even when it is the very hardest thing we will ever do, and never wanted. I don't know how I will show up. I am pretty good at being calm, capable, and brave. It is hard to do with all of this physical pain and a maternal devotion that is going to destroy my soul. Against all instincts, I have to show up.

Speaking of needing and vulnerability, I just started accepting those recently. First, I had to admit that I could no longer go to the grocery store, doctor appointments, or kid events. A month ago, I announced to my partner that I couldn't see people anymore outside of my children and him in my home. I could no longer go to any dinners at his parents, I could have no friends drop by. Just this week, I admitted that I needed help, I could not be alone, and it was going to be a hell of a ride to get me to the end. I've had to end conversations that I can't bear to have, turn off the TV when I can't handle people and their normal lives, and even tell my children - I can't do it. I am sorry. I am sick. I have known for a full year my fate. I could feel the disease in my body and it's trajectory. I knew where it would go. I've showed up anyway - to doctors, naturopaths, chiropractors, handfuls of fellow patients, tried every alternative treatment there is - knowing what I already knew. I put on a face for the children at every soccer and basketball game, every craft I made in the classroom, every meeting with the teacher - knowing it was not sustainable, trying anyway, hiding incredible pain.

I have reached the point of accepting that I won't recover, there is no sustainable life, and I need help getting there. I have admitted that I have no idea how I am going to leave this world, the ones I love, the children behind. I have acknowledged that my staying is not an option - it really is not in any capacity, physically or financially. I know that my being alive would be preferred but ultimately not the right choice for my children. I have a long way to go in the next two weeks, with much to face that I don't have the physical and emotional strength for. Your perspective will be helpful in facing those times. I will never win, but I will show up.

There is still bravery in accepting defeat. In fact, it was fightingsioux that told me once: "When defeat is inevitable it is wisest to yield." - Lao Tzu

There is a sense of bravery in showing up, you are right, even to face defeat.

That was so eloquently written. I, who write massive walls of text, loved reading every word of your wall.

Thank you so much for all that you wrote.

You loved and appreciated life. You sound like the kind of mother I would have wanted, and wanted to be. You overcame and conquered so much in life. You have applied wisdom to this final experience and are leaving in the best way possible. One day if your children ever know the whole story, they will have reason to respect and honor you and your choices.

Thank you, at the end of that comment, for teaching me. @fightingsioux could be a right surly man, but he also demonstrated wisdom no matter how it was delivered, and I'm glad you shared what he shared with you.

Sending empathy and compassion, and cheering you on at this difficult end to your life journey. What I've been privileged to know of you in the past months, you are, to me, good and brave. Those who love you will feel the loss and will miss you, but it sounds like you have all been blessed to have had one another for any length of time. The Stoics would say it is not how long of a life that matters, but how well it was lived, and, at least equally importantly to them, how well one faced death.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

There is still bravery in accepting defeat. In fact, it was fightingsioux that told me once: "When defeat is inevitable it is wisest to yield." - Lao Tzu

There is a sense of bravery in showing up, you are right, even to face defeat.

This reminded me of a quote from Montaigne:

"If chance delivers some great misfortune that you cannot remedy, a haven is always nearby. You can swim away from your body as you would from a leaking boat."

I value what @fightingsioux quoted, this just feels a bit more empowering to me. And it also helps when I consider suicide. Not so much as a desperate act of escape, though as I've already said, that mindset can play a role and may even be helpful in completing the act. But since one cannot just lay down and die in surrender of defeat, I feel more capable if I view suicide as withdrawing from a party gone bad, or swimming away from my body, whether it's damaged, or the life it lives is damaged. These are also brave acts, and empowerment can help support bravery. @Soul is also trying to come up with perspectives tht empower.

Such a complicated yet also fascinating subject under discussion here! And that fascination can lead to finding solutions just as much as can need and desperation.

 

[AcornUnderground]

This reminded me of a quote from Montaigne:

"If chance delivers some great misfortune that you cannot remedy, a haven is always nearby. You can swim away from your body as you would from a leaking boat."

I value what @fightingsioux quoted, this just feels a bit more empowering to me. And it also helps when I consider suicide. Not so much as a desperate act of escape, though as I've already said, that mindset can play a role and may even be helpful in completing the act. But since one cannot just lay down and die in surrender of defeat, I feel more capable if I view suicide as withdrawing from a party gone bad, or swimming away from my body, whether it's damaged, or the life it lives is damaged. These are also brave acts, and empowerment can help support bravery. @Soul is also trying to come up with perspectives that empower.

Such a complicated yet also fascinating subject under discussion here! And that fascination can lead to finding solutions just as much as can need and d
desperation.

@GoodPersonEffed - Thank you for reminding me of this quote. I have seen it once before, and forgotten it even though it resonated with me. It does help. It is so hard when you love your boat, even though it is sinking, and you are leaving people that need you at the party. Facts are facts, however and the boat is sinking. It is time to say goodbye to those you love, but unfortunately an Irish goodbye forever.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

@GoodPersonEffed - Thank you for reminding me of this quote. I have seen it once before, and forgotten it even though it resonated with me. It does help. It is so hard when you love your boat, even though it is sinking, and you are leaving people that need you at the party. Facts are facts, however and the boat is sinking. It is time to say goodbye to those you love, but unfortunately an Irish goodbye forever.

You're welcome!

Does it have to be an Irish goodbye? Can you not write letters to your children and entrust them to a law firm with instructions to deliver them once the children come of age and are better able to process this? You're not doing anything to be ashamed of, but it is honorable and good, I think, to protect them from the full knowledge for now.

 

[AcornUnderground]

You're welcome!

Does it have to be an Irish goodbye? Can you not write letters to your children and entrust them to a law firm with instructions to deliver them once the children come of age and are better able to process this? You're not doing anything to be ashamed of, but it is honorable and good, I think, to protect them from the full knowledge for now.

I have written letters and made videos, and I have tried to edit them as if it was more a goodbye of who I was because I am so sick instead of a goodbye because I killed myself. I have to go back through them this week; it is emotionally exhausting. When they are older, they will likely know what really happened; it is hard to say. But yes - I am leaving them with letters, videos, money timely distributed, college paid for, sentimental items in storage, clothes purchased for them twice a year, more money when they turn 27. Whatever I can do. I can't bring myself to write letters for every moment I will miss, plus that will show that I knew I was dying, etc. I still feel like I am leaving them so alone, because I am.

 

[lululoo]

This reminded me of a quote from Montaigne:

"If chance delivers some great misfortune that you cannot remedy, a haven is always nearby. You can swim away from your body as you would from a leaking boat."

I value what @fightingsioux quoted, this just feels a bit more empowering to me. And it also helps when I consider suicide. Not so much as a desperate act of escape, though as I've already said, that mindset can play a role and may even be helpful in completing the act. But since one cannot just lay down and die in surrender of defeat, I feel more capable if I view suicide as withdrawing from a party gone bad, or swimming away from my body, whether it's damaged, or the life it lives is damaged. These are also brave acts, and empowerment can help support bravery. @Soul is also trying to come up with perspectives tht empower.

Such a complicated yet also fascinating subject under discussion here! And that fascination can lead to finding solutions just as much as can need and desperation.

You come across as strong and empowered and ready already. To an outsider it hardly seems that you need any more perspective to be ready. So thank you for still sharing your thoughts here.

 

[AcornUnderground]

Interesting that this story was published today. The woman who went to Pegasos also had Sjogren's like me, though her primary disease was ME. https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/07/heal...Ynn2rZKkiumgR_9w338A3hFbMPMpqEf3bnLe3oTYzjf44

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Interesting that this story was published today. The woman who went to Pegasos also had Sjogren's like me, though her primary disease was ME. https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/07/heal...Ynn2rZKkiumgR_9w338A3hFbMPMpqEf3bnLe3oTYzjf44

At first I wasn't sure how the story related to the thread, except your shared conditions and going to Pegasos. But the story was also about courage, and as well, related to the quote by Lao Tzu -- she said she never gave up hope, there was just nothing more that could be done.

Sending you more compassion, respect, and gentle hugs.