Discussion A problem with positivity

[derpyderpins]

I say all this supportive, positive crap and always try to point people to a way things can get better or be better or feel less bad, and I shouldn't. It's selfish, and I don't actually know anything. I want things to be better. I want people to be better to each other and care and be rational but that's not reality.

Good outcomes are rare, and there's no formula for them. If you've ended up here, you're already down. You've missed more than a few coin flips, either materialistically, genetically, emotionally, or whatever. You're down. And the fact of the matter is that we're probably not going to climb out. Even if we hit a few wins, we're too far down. You can do everything right, follow the rules, be good to others, try and try again and you'll still wind up right down on your face again.

@FuneralCry was a prophet. Hope is a killer.

The problem with positivity is that it's a lie.

 

[Agon321]

To be honest, I think most people here will never be happy.
I also sometimes try to be "positive", but I don't believe in my own words.
I just don't want to take away people's hope, even if it's naive.

There is rarely a happy ending in life.
The world doesn't care about us.

Of course, I'm not saying that people shouldn't fight.
If someone has the strength, they should.
But the outcome of the fight is not always satisfactory.

 

[halleyscomet]

If being positive and hoping for things makes people feel better, then I think it's good for them. I don't think things are as hopeless as they seem, but I don't think of things super positively either.

Everyone has their own ways of coping, some lean on positivity to hopefully feel better, some lean on negativity so they don't get hurt by false hope, and some of us stay neutral. All of these reactions are valid, and can be helpful in their own ways.

 

[derpyderpins]

If being positive and hoping for things makes people feel better, then I think it's good for them. I don't think things are as hopeless as they seem, but I don't think of things super positively either.

Everyone has their own ways of coping, some lean on positivity to hopefully feel better, some lean on negativity so they don't get hurt by false hope, and some of us stay neutral. All of these reactions are valid, and can be helpful in their own ways.

And that's fine, but I don't think I want to push neutral or negative people towards positivity anymore. It seems insensitive.

 

[Pluto]

Whether someone calls it negative or positive, the difficulty is in being factual.

I often point out that motivational speakers present a narrative that brings out the best out in people, but the actual statements that they make would rarely pass 'fact checking.' For example, the claim that anyone can be wealthy and successful is downright absurd. Thus, a positivity bias serves most people.

The flip side is that people in depressed states are also prone to make cynical statements that are not really accurate either. Though in some cases they are, in which case it might be called depressive realism.

Sifting through our numerous biases and cognitive distortions to reach some reasonable bedrock of factuality can be very difficult.

 

[UKscotty]

The problem is positivity is that a depressed mind cannot see anything positive.

 

[lemonbunny]

i vaguely remember this arg on youtube about depression and it seemed to communicate the message that the answer is to cope, not heal, because you can never heal completely from what hurt you and instead have to learn to live alongside it.

 

[Abyssal]

I've found that genuine positivity, when my mind is capable of feeling it, actually does help me get better. The key is that you believe the positivity enough to take it in.

Is it a case of positivity = improvement? Probably not. Emotional improvement probably leads to positivity for me, which does not help advice wise. It's like saying "If you want to get better just improve!" And that's so horrible it's laughable. I don't know how I manage improvement, even if o always return to suffering, but I do know that positive helps me maintain that strength it gives me.

 

[JustA_LittlePerson]

i vaguely remember this arg on youtube about depression and it seemed to communicate the message that the answer is to cope, not heal, because you can never heal completely from what hurt you and instead have to learn to live alongside it.

I have a vague memory of that too

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Positivity does often feel unreal. When I'm in a positive mood it doesn't really feel like I'm in one, it just feels more like the absence of any negative feelings which is still only temporary.

 

[jar-baby]

Positivity does often feel unreal. When I'm in a positive mood it doesn't really feel like I'm in one, it just feels more like the absence of any negative feelings which is still only temporary.

Same. It actually feels to me like my consciousness is dulled and my mind is just ignoring all the negative things. which frustrates me.

The positivity I feel on occasion is really just hope with no basis in reality. The delusion only keeps me inert, and I hate that.

 

[DefinitelyReady]

The problem is positivity is that a depressed mind cannot see anything positive.

I don't understand why this is such a difficult concept for people. It seriously perplexes me into a swirling abyss as how they (less or nondepressed people) are not able to grasp this. It's a total mindfuck. Like how does 2+2 not equal four? Like I'm not a monster for not being able to find any positives in my specific life besides having the absolute bare necessities to live rn. Now it's my fault I'm in my predicament and haven't utilized opportunities to better my life, but it's not my fault that I can't see the positives in it. It feels like being colorblind. I'm not like FC and trying to be the Angel of Death. Schizophrenics can't help that they see "purple people" everywhere (Girl, Interrupted movie reference); and I can't help that I see darkness in everything. It's my cancer of the mind, and not all cancers have been made to be manageable let alone curable.

The shame and blame to carry every second of the day is like being used as a punching bag. It's no wonder I don't feel physical pain like a normal person. It's not because I'm a badass; I'm fucking numb to the point of immunity. Sorry rant over

i vaguely remember this arg on youtube about depression and it seemed to communicate the message that the answer is to cope, not heal, because you can never heal completely from what hurt you and instead have to learn to live alongside it.

Cope, to me, just seems like a word that is used to distract and not dwell on one's hopeless reality so that you won't ctb, or at least stay in a permanent depressive state. I guess so you just don't live out the rest of your days in a depressed haze, just dragging on, which to me is "coping" because you're alive. That seems like a more realistic portrayal of the word.

I don't know if that makes sense, but I'm about to clear my voice very loudly and huff the next time a mental health professional says "cope" or "coping skill." I wonder what would happen if a trend caught on, that every time they pulled that trick on people the patient replies, "You mean kill myself?" or something idiotic. There just needs to be a viral pushback movement if we're ever going to get anywhere because the quality of therapy hasn't changed imo. Mental health days and breaks, plastering helplines/ads and campaigns, and some new approval of drugs are all that's been done; and the suicide numbers haven't changed.