A horrifying DMT experience with unexpected after effects

[Sensei]

First of all, I don't advocate using hallucinogens. They can definitely be dangerous and I know this for a fact now. The effects of hallucinogens can't be controlled with willpower and once they kick in there's no return and no way out. They can scar you and worsen any mental problems you may have. They can even give you a psychosis or PTSD, or make you seek death before you're ready for it. Yet I need to share this with someone and there's no one close to me I dare to share it with. So, it's a kind of venting I guess.

I need something – hope, liberation, enlightenment, salvation – to keep my death wish at bay, and I believe hallucinogens might be a path to this. Desperate? Yes. Stupid? Perhaps. The other week I used plant matter which contains DMT, the allegedly strongest existing hallucinogen, and curiously enough perfectly legal to purchase. (Actually, Salvia divinorum and something called System are stronger, but that's another story.) I only took what most sources suggest is a low or at least moderate dose since I have little experience of hallucinogens. Typically, DMT makes you see colourful and vivid visuals and puts you in a dreamlike state where you may encounter entities and reach insights about your life and the creation. My experience was nothing like that.

First, I experienced mild hallucinations, e.g. shadows looking convincingly human or humanlike. When I closed my eyes, I could see vivid and swirling patterns, although faint and not very colourful. This was followed by very strong spatial hallucinations, e.g. floors moving like waves and rapid shifts between teleopsia and pelopsia. It was a bit anxiety-inducing, but manageable. Unfortunately, it was the calm before the storm.

What followed next was the possibly most horrifying experience of my life. I felt very strong nausea, which was expected and mentioned in trip reports. I also experienced very frightening hallucinations, satanic in nature, which was unexpected and not mentioned in trip reports. Above all, I felt overwhelming dread and anxiety, which certainly was unexpected and not mentioned in trip reports. Never in my life have I experienced such strong anxiety, not even when I've been at risk of getting seriously injured or killed. Actually, anxiety is too weak a word; anguish or agony are more fitting. It's difficult to find words to describe how incredibly disturbing it was. It was like a strong electrical current passed through my body and my mind was emptied and filled with primeval fear.

I don't know how, but I eventually managed to break free from the hypnotic grip of the hallucinations and tried using meditation techniques to make it end or at least make it bearable, but to little effect. I lost track of time so I don't know how long this horror lasted, but if I would guess it only lasted a few minutes. It sounds like an exaggeration, but I'm fully convinced that had it lasted longer, I would have gone clinically psychotic. I was saved by the mandatory purging, i.e. vomiting. It was fortunately far less exhausting than I thought it would be. I did everything in my power to not start tripping, including keeping my eyes open so I wouldn't see any closed-eye hallucinations. The horror eventually faded away and what followed was bliss. I lay down in my bed and felt fantastic. I was filled with happiness and harmony, and I could see closed-eye hallucinations of beautiful, but faint dreamscapes. I could discern humanoid shapes, but they were distant. There was a long and pleasant afterglow and I slept like a baby that night. This bliss pales next to the horror, though.

Then we come to the weird part. This was a deeply disturbing experience which I probably never will forget, and I may actually have been traumatized by it, although I don't think so. (I've become a little bit afraid of the dark, though.) Nevertheless, I strangely enough feel happy that I went through this. I'm still drawn to DMT and have an urge to use it again, although at threshold doses this time. The reason is that for several days after this failed trip, I didn't have to self-medicate, didn't feel depressed and suicidal, wasn't as easily stressed, was much less prone to anger, and didn't really worry about anything. Although I don't feel as good as that anymore, I do feel better than I did before this experience. I don't really understand why this is, but perhaps it's simply because hallucinogens interact with serotonin and my levels were raised somehow, or because the horror made me feel alive again or made my real-life problems seem petty in comparison.

This is not as far-fetched as it sounds, because there have been recent experiments on treating or even curing depressions with hallucinogens. This is actually a renaissance, because hallucinogens were used in psychiatry until the 1960s when they were banned. Unfortunately, I can't be cured this way as I suffer from bipolar disorder which is incurable, and my mental problems are as much biological and chemical as psychological and existential. Still, it felt fantastic to feel and live as a mentally healthy person for a few days, something which I've been denied for nearly fifteen years.

Again, I don't advocate using hallucinogens. I can't emphasize enough how deeply disturbing this experience was for me. As I stated above, I'm convinced that I would have gone psychotic had it lasted longer. Somehow, this experience had a, what it seems so far, happy outcome for me, but it may as well end in disaster for you. Still, I can't help being fascinated by the fact that a horrifying experience made me mentally fit as a flea for the first time in nearly fifteen years.

 

[Santiago]

Thanks for sharing your experience. Haven't done any drugs in my life, but DMT is definitely on my list of things to try before I die.

However some of the bad experiences do scare me away a bit. Especially since I struggle with mental health problems.

 

[Sensei]

Thanks for sharing your experience. Haven't done any drugs in my life, but DMT is definitely on my list of things to try before I die.

However some of the bad experiences do scare me away a bit. Especially since I struggle with mental health problems.

I can tell you, it scared the hell out of me. It's not to be taken lightly. I think it's like nuclear power. It can be very useful and beneficial, but if things go wrong, they can go really wrong.

 

[Suiplastic]

I have taken DMT at least 20 times and some other psychedelics over 100 times ... many people do not know how to take that safe. If you want to take psychedelics without a bad trip, you need to have a good situation around you ... any negative and bad energy around you will go to in bad trip...

 

[Sensei]

I have taken DMT at least 20 times and some other psychedelics over 100 times ... many people do not know how to take that safe. If you want to take psychedelics without a bad trip, you need to have a good situation around you ... any negative and bad energy around you will go to in bad trip...

That's what makes this experience so frustrating. I made sure to prepare myself well. I ate no food rich in tyramine, dressed comfortably, prepared the room I would be in, meditated, was in a good mood, and so on.

 

[Temporarilyabsurd]

Is it possible that your Bipolar condition is the "setting" that gave you the 'hell' experience ?

I'm asking because , at 55 ,I have always avoided hallucinogens for a similar reason .
( I have never been diagnosed as Bipolar but my regular swings into catastrophic low mood (from a
steady state of depressed low mood to start with ) have been regular enough to make me think I can at least empathize with bipolar folk .)
I just couldn't face the possibility of going into that EXTRA darkness.

I was raised as a "full on" demon believer .
I have deconstructed that to a degree , but do retain a superstition of our existence being governed in part / entirety by malevolent forces , so there is that too ...

I audio booked Terrence MacKenna and "How to change your mind" by Pollard.

I'm sorry you had such a terrifying experience .
I saw a Graeme Hancock video of his thoughts about the dark forces he encountered on Ayahuasca ...

As a meta narrative thought ... perhaps these dark forces are real or symbolic representations of "Alll that ails us " as humans ? Maybe part of our pathway is to begin to make radical traction with these forces to objectify the subjective Evil in the organic experience ( the inescapable biological program of oppression of others to survive . )

Jesus in the desert for the forty days and nights ... kind of thing ?

Breaking the blinkers/ lenses of denial .

We are not 'nice ' creatures and as soon as we take that on board , the sooner we can fix it .

Well that was a bit of a line blurring detour through the inner / outer world 'boundary'.
Which is a thing in itself.
( always have been a sucker for the Jungian 'synchronicity' thing. )

Thanks for relating your experience .

- It hasn't completely put me off ... :/

 

[ValideSultana]

First of all, I don't advocate using hallucinogens. They can definitely be dangerous and I know this for a fact now. The effects of hallucinogens can't be controlled with willpower and once they kick in there's no return and no way out. They can scar you and worsen any mental problems you may have. They can even give you a psychosis or PTSD, or make you seek death before you're ready for it. Yet I need to share this with someone and there's no one close to me I dare to share it with. So, it's a kind of venting I guess.

I need something – hope, liberation, enlightenment, salvation – to keep my death wish at bay, and I believe hallucinogens might be a path to this. Desperate? Yes. Stupid? Perhaps. The other week I used plant matter which contains DMT, the allegedly strongest existing hallucinogen, and curiously enough perfectly legal to purchase. (Actually, Salvia divinorum and something called System are stronger, but that's another story.) I only took what most sources suggest is a low or at least moderate dose since I have little experience of hallucinogens. Typically, DMT makes you see colourful and vivid visuals and puts you in a dreamlike state where you may encounter entities and reach insights about your life and the creation. My experience was nothing like that.

First, I experienced mild hallucinations, e.g. shadows looking convincingly human or humanlike. When I closed my eyes, I could see vivid and swirling patterns, although faint and not very colourful. This was followed by very strong spatial hallucinations, e.g. floors moving like waves and rapid shifts between teleopsia and pelopsia. It was a bit anxiety-inducing, but manageable. Unfortunately, it was the calm before the storm.

What followed next was the possibly most horrifying experience of my life. I felt very strong nausea, which was expected and mentioned in trip reports. I also experienced very frightening hallucinations, satanic in nature, which was unexpected and not mentioned in trip reports. Above all, I felt overwhelming dread and anxiety, which certainly was unexpected and not mentioned in trip reports. Never in my life have I experienced such strong anxiety, not even when I've been at risk of getting seriously injured or killed. Actually, anxiety is too weak a word; anguish or agony are more fitting. It's difficult to find words to describe how incredibly disturbing it was. It was like a strong electrical current passed through my body and my mind was emptied and filled with primeval fear.

I don't know how, but I eventually managed to break free from the hypnotic grip of the hallucinations and tried using meditation techniques to make it end or at least make it bearable, but to little effect. I lost track of time so I don't know how long this horror lasted, but if I would guess it only lasted a few minutes. It sounds like an exaggeration, but I'm fully convinced that had it lasted longer, I would have gone clinically psychotic. I was saved by the mandatory purging, i.e. vomiting. It was fortunately far less exhausting than I thought it would be. I did everything in my power to not start tripping, including keeping my eyes open so I wouldn't see any closed-eye hallucinations. The horror eventually faded away and what followed was bliss. I lay down in my bed and felt fantastic. I was filled with happiness and harmony, and I could see closed-eye hallucinations of beautiful, but faint dreamscapes. I could discern humanoid shapes, but they were distant. There was a long and pleasant afterglow and I slept like a baby that night. This bliss pales next to the horror, though.

Then we come to the weird part. This was a deeply disturbing experience which I probably never will forget, and I may actually have been traumatized by it, although I don't think so. (I've become a little bit afraid of the dark, though.) Nevertheless, I strangely enough feel happy that I went through this. I'm still drawn to DMT and have an urge to use it again, although at threshold doses this time. The reason is that for several days after this failed trip, I didn't have to self-medicate, didn't feel depressed and suicidal, wasn't as easily stressed, was much less prone to anger, and didn't really worry about anything. Although I don't feel as good as that anymore, I do feel better than I did before this experience. I don't really understand why this is, but perhaps it's simply because hallucinogens interact with serotonin and my levels were raised somehow, or because the horror made me feel alive again or made my real-life problems seem petty in comparison.

This is not as far-fetched as it sounds, because there have been recent experiments on treating or even curing depressions with hallucinogens. This is actually a renaissance, because hallucinogens were used in psychiatry until the 1960s when they were banned. Unfortunately, I can't be cured this way as I suffer from bipolar disorder which is incurable, and my mental problems are as much biological and chemical as psychological and existential. Still, it felt fantastic to feel and live as a mentally healthy person for a few days, something which I've been denied for nearly fifteen years.

Again, I don't advocate using hallucinogens. I can't emphasize enough how deeply disturbing this experience was for me. As I stated above, I'm convinced that I would have gone psychotic had it lasted longer. Somehow, this experience had a, what it seems so far, happy outcome for me, but it may as well end in disaster for you. Still, I can't help being fascinated by the fact that a horrifying experience made me mentally fit as a flea for the first time in nearly fifteen years.

Like you, I'm manic depressive (bipolar). I have other mental health issues too. Many years ago, I loved acid. One night I was at home. My mental state was stable, for me. I didn't want to kill myself at that point in time. I wanted some fun, and I had some tabs and took one. 1 hr later, nothing, so I took another one. A little while later, I started tripping. A bad damned trip. I was sure I was going to die before ever seeing the sun again. It scared the fuck out of me, and it took a number of hours before it wore off. During those hours, I was petrified, hallucinating and knowing I was going to die. When I finally came down, I swore off acid for the rest of my life.

 

[SlackJim]

what did you take? There are a massive variety of different trip reports from DMT, and many of them are quite hellish. Depending on your beliefs this may sound like bullshit, but in South America, shamans will cleanse and protect the space from negative spirits during the ceremony. The ceremony is a protected space and venturing outside of it can be dangerous (or tripping alone). I have read some very dark stories, DMT can take you to many different places, it is my belief that these places are real, just different dimensions layered over the one we live in. The universe has a balance of light and dark, you dont get one without the other. The people who work with these plants for the whole lives are not to be underestimated in their ability to navigate these spaces and protect participants. I have been in an ayahuasca ceremony and in a very difficult, turbulent place, and the shaman knows, and comes to help you get out of it.

I'm a big advocate for psychedelic plant medicine, but advice number one is to do it with people who know what they are doing. (I feel this strongly because I had an experience when I was young where I nearly jumped out a window under the influence, I wasn't suicidal at the time)

 

[Sensei]

Is it possible that your Bipolar condition is the "setting" that gave you the 'hell' experience ?

I'm asking because , at 55 ,I have always avoided hallucinogens for a similar reason .
( I have never been diagnosed as Bipolar but my regular swings into catastrophic low mood (from a
steady state of depressed low mood to start with ) have been regular enough to make me think I can at least empathize with bipolar folk .)
I just couldn't face the possibility of going into that EXTRA darkness.

I was raised as a "full on" demon believer .
I have deconstructed that to a degree , but do retain a superstition of our existence being governed in part / entirety by malevolent forces , so there is that too ...

I audio booked Terrence MacKenna and "How to change your mind" by Pollard.

I'm sorry you had such a terrifying experience .
I saw a Graeme Hancock video of his thoughts about the dark forces he encountered on Ayahuasca ...

As a meta narrative thought ... perhaps these dark forces are real or symbolic representations of "Alll that ails us " as humans ? Maybe part of our pathway is to begin to make radical traction with these forces to objectify the subjective Evil in the organic experience ( the inescapable biological program of oppression of others to survive . )

Jesus in the desert for the forty days and nights ... kind of thing ?

Breaking the blinkers/ lenses of denial .

We are not 'nice ' creatures and as soon as we take that on board , the sooner we can fix it .

Well that was a bit of a line blurring detour through the inner / outer world 'boundary'.
Which is a thing in itself.
( always have been a sucker for the Jungian 'synchronicity' thing. )

Thanks for relating your experience .

- It hasn't completely put me off ... :/

I hear you, although I have to use both my intellect and intuition. It seems you're a wiser man than I ever will be.

Yes, my bipolarity can definitely be a factor. We have a built-in instability and recent studies suggest that lithium may amplify the effects of hallucinogens manyfold. However, there are many accounts of bipolar people who have used hallucinogens without incident. It doesn't automatically lead to bad trips.

Maybe you're bipolar. It's a complex "spectrum" disorder. I don't think you suffer from bipolar disorder I or II, but possibly cyclothymia, because it's impossible to live a functional life without treatment. Without medication I would most probably have been unemployed. addicted to alcohol, and so on. In fact, I think I would have committed suicide about thirteen years ago. Life hasn't exactly been a day at the beach since I started taking medicines, but there have been some good moments that I wouldn't have wanted to miss out on.

A couple of incidents have made me start doubting that my standpoint necessarily must be 100 % correct, but I don't believe that our lives are governed by any entities or forces. In some ways I wish it was, though. I think it probably would have been easier to carry my burden if I knew there was a reason and not simply a case of random bad luck.

It was indeed a terryfing experience. Still, it made me feel mentally healthy and normal for a few days afterwards, an amazing experience, so maybe it was worth it. Also, and now we move into the twilight zone, a shadow in my soul wants to suffer this horror again. I'm dead inside in many ways and this somehow made me feel alive. I was really drunk last weekend and surprisingly had a wonderful evening, but the drunker I got, the more obsessed I got about doing it again and feel the pain once more. Luckily, it was impossible at the time. And maybe, just maybe, it's the fourty days and nights you speak of. There might be something to be learnt here for me, but I have yet to figure out what.

Like you, I'm manic depressive (bipolar). I have other mental health issues too. Many years ago, I loved acid. One night I was at home. My mental state was stable, for me. I didn't want to kill myself at that point in time. I wanted some fun, and I had some tabs and took one. 1 hr later, nothing, so I took another one. A little while later, I started tripping. A bad damned trip. I was sure I was going to die before ever seeing the sun again. It scared the fuck out of me, and it took a number of hours before it wore off. During those hours, I was petrified, hallucinating and knowing I was going to die. When I finally came down, I swore off acid for the rest of my life.

That sounds like a truly terrifying experience. It seems that when something goes wrong with hallucinogenic and dissociative (technically also hallucinogenic) drugs, it starts with, "I don't feel anything, so I think I'll raise the dose." I'd like to stress that I I'm not interested in the recreational aspects of drugs, only the therapeutical. I don't want to get high. I want to feel normal.

what did you take? There are a massive variety of different trip reports from DMT, and many of them are quite hellish. Depending on your beliefs this may sound like bullshit, but in South America, shamans will cleanse and protect the space from negative spirits during the ceremony. The ceremony is a protected space and venturing outside of it can be dangerous (or tripping alone). I have read some very dark stories, DMT can take you to many different places, it is my belief that these places are real, just different dimensions layered over the one we live in. The universe has a balance of light and dark, you dont get one without the other. The people who work with these plants for the whole lives are not to be underestimated in their ability to navigate these spaces and protect participants. I have been in an ayahuasca ceremony and in a very difficult, turbulent place, and the shaman knows, and comes to help you get out of it.

I'm a big advocate for psychedelic plant medicine, but advice number one is to do it with people who know what they are doing. (I feel this strongly because I had an experience when I was young where I nearly jumped out a window under the influence, I wasn't suicidal at the time)

I took Mimosa hostilis with Syrian rue as MAOI. I've read terrifying trip reports about DMT so I'm aware of the risks. What bothers me is that I didn't take a high dose by any means and that the horror began before I went into "hyperspace".

I don't doubt for a second that the shamans and other knowledgeable people can be very helpful and guide you through any dark places you may find yourself in. However, my life situation forces me to explore this on my own. I have to carry my burden alone.

 

[Conker]

what did you take? There are a massive variety of different trip reports from DMT, and many of them are quite hellish. Depending on your beliefs this may sound like bullshit, but in South America, shamans will cleanse and protect the space from negative spirits during the ceremony. The ceremony is a protected space and venturing outside of it can be dangerous (or tripping alone). I have read some very dark stories, DMT can take you to many different places, it is my belief that these places are real, just different dimensions layered over the one we live in. The universe has a balance of light and dark, you dont get one without the other. The people who work with these plants for the whole lives are not to be underestimated in their ability to navigate these spaces and protect participants. I have been in an ayahuasca ceremony and in a very difficult, turbulent place, and the shaman knows, and comes to help you get out of it.

I'm a big advocate for psychedelic plant medicine, but advice number one is to do it with people who know what they are doing. (I feel this strongly because I had an experience when I was young where I nearly jumped out a window under the influence, I wasn't suicidal at the time)

which country would you recommend going to for meeting with a shaman?

 

[Hunter100]

I have to share that every time I have tripped with even LSD I laughed the hardest I ever have and for the following weeks I was "better" I never once thought about driving my truck off a bridge or down a embankment. But that's just me.

 

[Sensei]

I have to share that every time I have tripped with even LSD I laughed the hardest I ever have and for the following weeks I was "better" I never once thought about driving my truck off a bridge or down a embankment. But that's just me.

Yes, I have the same experience, both this time and when I took magic truffles, weaker than magic mushrooms and requiring higher doses. Hallucinogenes seem to have some kind of antidepressive properties. I know there are people who micro-dose for this reason.

 

[Roberto]

I went to Colombia and used DMT from different shamans. I wanted to end my depression. To vomit is almost always using Ayahuasca.

One man had a horrible experience behind me. Screaming desperately. It was horrible for me. You get more sensible when you are on DMT. Don't feel afraid to get hooked to DMT. I don't feel it's possible. It's always an awful experience because of the vomit. I had the same experience : days/weeks after taking Ayahuasca I felt better. I didn't know why. My idea was that I was happier to try to get into my mind to find answers. To share that experience with other people with problems also that try to evolve. To try to find out if there is something more after death. I found only emptiness. I think it was the good feeling to be with other people fighting our problems connected between us.
I don't think DMT is the strongest hallucinogens. DMT is provided by our body also.
I had tried about 10 times or so. I wanted to know if I had something inside of me hidden. A trauma or anything. I just found emptiness.

 

[SlackJim]

which country would you recommend going to for meeting with a shaman?

Depends where you are and who you know, there are people working in most countries but it is legal in only a few. Ayahuasca is native to South America mainly Peru, Colombia, Ecuador and Brazil. Akasha is native to Australia, Iboga in Africa. In Europe I think Portugal is the most open about hosting ceremonies because of the more open drug laws. In the Netherlands you can legally attend truffles retreats. I think there are a lot of people working underground almost everywhere in Europe.

 

[Temporarilyabsurd]

I hear you, although I have to use both my intellect and intuition. It seems you're a wiser man than I ever will be.

Yes, my bipolarity can definitely be a factor. We have a built-in instability and recent studies suggest that lithium may amplify the effects of hallucinogens manyfold. However, there are many accounts of bipolar people who have used hallucinogens without incident. It doesn't automatically lead to bad trips.

Maybe you're bipolar. It's a complex "spectrum" disorder. I don't think you suffer from bipolar disorder I or II, but possibly cyclothymia, because it's impossible to live a functional life without treatment. Without medication I would most probably have been unemployed. addicted to alcohol, and so on. In fact, I think I would have committed suicide about thirteen years ago. Life hasn't exactly been a day at the beach since I started taking medicines, but there have been some good moments that I wouldn't have wanted to miss out on.

A couple of incidents have made me start doubting that my standpoint necessarily must be 100 % correct, but I don't believe that our lives are governed by any entities or forces. In some ways I wish it was, though. I think it probably would have been easier to carry my burden if I knew there was a reason and not simply a case of random bad luck.

It was indeed a terryfing experience. Still, it made me feel mentally healthy and normal for a few days afterwards, an amazing experience, so maybe it was worth it. Also, and now we move into the twilight zone, a shadow in my soul wants to suffer this horror again. I'm dead inside in many ways and this somehow made me feel alive. I was really drunk last weekend and surprisingly had a wonderful evening, but the drunker I got, the more obsessed I got about doing it again and feel the pain once more. Luckily, it was impossible at the time. And maybe, just maybe, it's the fourty days and nights you speak of. There might be something to be learnt here for me, but I have yet to figure out what.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply .

LOL at the wise comment ! ( bless you , ha ha )

fyi , I was on booze for thirty years ... self medicating I guess.
My path had been to completely withdraw from society and just exist while burning up some financial resources. I made the decision to stop "playing the game" until I actually wanted to live , rather than grimly survive.
It may have worked... I almost feel up to facing reality again .

I may have something like that cyclothymia you mentioned ...
I really think I needed a rest , also I have discovered that it takes years to get over constant alcohol use.
I made major errors when I was just a year or so clean .
I feel like I hardly know that guy , almost .

It's interesting that you consider doing it again ...
Pollan mentions trip guides , it is expensive but seemed like a good thing.
( I vaguely hinted at a tripping veteran but they weren't interested... maybe I should have been more
forthright , but I felt my 'crazy rep' may heve preceded me ... )

About the dark forces ... symbolic or not , we may never know for sure.
I hear you about the preference for them over blind chance .
It does seem to give the suffering some meaning .

Maybe if you do it again you'll get a good trip .
That would be awesome .

Maybe you are doing something therapeutic ... maybe this is traction in a symbolic ( if overwhelmingly real in the moment ) way with your "demon" ?

Thanks again for sharing your experience .

 

[Sensei]

Thanks for your thoughtful reply .

LOL at the wise comment ! ( bless you , ha ha )

fyi , I was on booze for thirty years ... self medicating I guess.
My path had been to completely withdraw from society and just exist while burning up some financial resources. I made the decision to stop "playing the game" until I actually wanted to live , rather than grimly survive.
It may have worked... I almost feel up to facing reality again .

I may have something like that cyclothymia you mentioned ...
I really think I needed a rest , also I have discovered that it takes years to get over constant alcohol use.
I made major errors when I was just a year or so clean .
I feel like I hardly know that guy , almost .

It's interesting that you consider doing it again ...
Pollan mentions trip guides , it is expensive but seemed like a good thing.
( I vaguely hinted at a tripping veteran but they weren't interested... maybe I should have been more
forthright , but I felt my 'crazy rep' may heve preceded me ... )

About the dark forces ... symbolic or not , we may never know for sure.
I hear you about the preference for them over blind chance .
It does seem to give the suffering some meaning .

Maybe if you do it again you'll get a good trip .
That would be awesome .

Maybe you are doing something therapeutic ... maybe this is traction in a symbolic ( if overwhelmingly real in the moment ) way with your "demon" ?

Thanks again for sharing your experience .

I think you are a wise man. I'm not sure you have lived your life wisely, but who has? What's important is that you are open-minded and curious, think outside the boundaries, have learned from you life experiences, and seem to have discerned the mechanisms of creation and life. That's wisdom in my book.

You know, it actually sounds like you might be bipolar. Abusing alchohol and burning money are typical bipolar "hobbies". I almost became an alcoholic when I fell ill and I've ruined my economy a couple of times. The main reason I think you might be bipolar is psychological, though. Your thinking is clearly unconventional, and I'm not sure I've ever encountered someone possessing cognitive disinhibition to such a high degree as you seem to do. Cognitive disinhibition is closely linked to intelligence, creativity, eccentricity, and psychosis, and is a trait which is significantly more common among bipolar individuals than in the general population.

I intend to do Mimosa hostilis again, but at threshold doses and gradually increase the doses. This bad experience might be a "freak accident", but maybe I'll have bad trips even at low doses and then I'll go no further. There are other, also legal, not as hazardous hallucinogens which can lead to insights too. For instance, I've done magic truffles, my only experience before doing DMT, and had an interesting experience. I was in a cavern with a very low ceiling, but it didn't feel claustrophobic. A constant and rapid stream of strange and mostly abstract shapes were swirling and morphing nonstop before my inner eyes, alternating between being organic, biomechanical, machinelike, vaguely monsterlike, spiky, crystalline, metallic, kaleidoscopic, and marvellously lustrous. Some of the vaguely monsterlike shapes even lunged at me a couple of times. What made the biggest impression on me was that I experienced something I can only describe as mindquakes which made my mind rock and tremble violently. It may sound frightening, but it was only fascinating. That's not the interesting part, though. I eventually descended into a dream-like state and I remember vaguely being in a kind of bright and misty fantasy garden and talking to a man in his sixties or seventies who wore medieval-looking clothing, but I don't know what we were talking about. When I woke up I felt great; actually, I wonder if I've ever felt better.

It's interesting what you say about this experience being therapeutic and dealing with my inner demon. What frightened me the most was a devil, or perhaps the Devil. I'm by no means religious and I have no interest in the occult whatsoever, so it's not a "logical" hallucination for me. If your theory is true, it would make sense, though

 

[Temporarilyabsurd]

You know, it actually sounds like you might be bipolar. Abusing alchohol and burning money are typical bipolar "hobbies". I almost became an alcoholic when I fell ill and I've ruined my economy a couple of times. The main reason I think you might be bipolar is psychological, though. Your thinking is clearly unconventional, and I'm not sure I've ever encountered someone possessing cognitive disinhibition to such a high degree as you seem to do. Cognitive disinhibition is closely linked to intelligence, creativity, eccentricity, and psychosis, and is a trait which is significantly more common among bipolar individuals than in the general population.

Cheers .

Yes, I think I'm on the spectrum.
What I have recently made a little traction with is 'comprtmentalizing' , as in ... beginning to tease various aspects
of my existence apart ,

I usually raile against that because of my anti authoritarian outsider bias, hence not pushing access to
Psychiatrists , ( I've done counselling but on reflection "performed" verbally lucidly and had a record of steady , if erratic. employment , and was written off as a malingering bum ( I was raised as a door to door salesman literally , so
I can do the glib slick chit chat with ease ... my big brother was a salesman for ten years ...)

I love the 'cognitive disinhibition' , great concept . Feels right.

So , yeah , a bit calmer and being able to see the bundles of dysfunctional family , cultural dislocation, bullying , negative self talk , substance abuse ... and not be living totally inside those things with no focus.

A fraction of clarity after years of 'mindlessness' is a big deal.

I think it may be a while until I seriously entertain a 'trip'.

I think I may be on a trip in a 'normal' kind of way , ( I think I have always been mentally ill , so , an increase in coping is a kind of 'new vision'.)

Thanks for your inciteful reply , I really hope you continue to get traction / meaning out of it all !

Safe 'travels' ... :)

( ps I really liked that "wise , but not living wisely" that felt so right on ! So typically paradoxical !
- as I have a real issue with the meritocratic virtue signalers ... even though I want to be one as well ...
cringe . )

 

[Roberto]

Thanks for your thoughtful reply .

LOL at the wise comment ! ( bless you , ha ha )

fyi , I was on booze for thirty years ... self medicating I guess.
My path had been to completely withdraw from society and just exist while burning up some financial resources. I made the decision to stop "playing the game" until I actually wanted to live , rather than grimly survive.
It may have worked... I almost feel up to facing reality again .

I may have something like that cyclothymia you mentioned ...
I really think I needed a rest , also I have discovered that it takes years to get over constant alcohol use.
I made major errors when I was just a year or so clean .
I feel like I hardly know that guy , almost .

It's interesting that you consider doing it again ...
Pollan mentions trip guides , it is expensive but seemed like a good thing.
( I vaguely hinted at a tripping veteran but they weren't interested... maybe I should have been more
forthright , but I felt my 'crazy rep' may heve preceded me ... )

About the dark forces ... symbolic or not , we may never know for sure.
I hear you about the preference for them over blind chance .
It does seem to give the suffering some meaning .

Maybe if you do it again you'll get a good trip .
That would be awesome .

Maybe you are doing something therapeutic ... maybe this is traction in a symbolic ( if overwhelmingly real in the moment ) way with your "demon" ?

Thanks again for sharing your experience .

I think that when you are in DMT, you learn more from bad trips than good ones. You don't take it to have a good time. It is a way to know yourself.
I think this kind of drugs / medicines, is a way to confront our problems, fears, hidden past.

 

[Sensei]

I think that when you are in DMT, you learn more from bad trips than good ones. You don't take it to have a good time. It is a way to know yourself.
I think this kind of drugs / medicines, is a way to confront our problems, fears, hidden past.

I do agree with you that DMT and similar substances should not be taken recreationally and teach us something, which probably differs from person person. It's interesting that you think that we learn more from bad trips than good trips. I like that idea actually, but judging from my own limited experience, a bad trip can be too bad to handle.

 

[Roberto]

I do agree with you that DMT and similar substances should not be taken recreationally and teach us something, which probably differs from person person. It's interesting that you think that we learn more from bad trips than good trips. I like that idea actually, but judging from my own limited experience, a bad trip can be too bad to handle.

I think it's important to have a good guide with experience. So he can handle correctly bad trips.

 

[Sensei]

I think it's important to have a good guide with experience. So he can handle correctly bad trips.

I agree. However, that's unfortunately not an option for me. I'll have take my chances with these dangerous drugs.

 

[LittleJem]

Here is what an online contact informed me about DMT. I found it interesting, hope you all do too:

"dmt exists in the pre-frontal cortex in quantities similar to that of serotonin ...It actually works as a natural neurotransmitter and has a higher affinity for the 5-HT2A receptor than serotonin does which is incredible....
so...Imagine, when you consume dmt, it changes the receptors in your brain so they are able to receive signals that exist on a different frequency than what we usually see So, with normal levels of serotonin and dmt, we're able to see this realm. But when higher levels of dmt enter the brain, it allows us to see a realm that actually exists but isn't visible to us with the normal perceptive abilities of our natural chemical composition"

Saying that, having hallucinated myself a LOT on weed edibles, LSD, and also twice on Ayahuasca, I now believe the hallucinogens just play with your mind, and I would take anything you see on drugs with a big grain of salt. I used to believe in all of it. Was I psychotic with it - I haven't admitted that yet, but I was definitely swept away with the fairies in a world of drugs, self-medicating every day.

I swore I'd never take Ayahuasca again, but because of the depression being so bad, am considering home brewing it for New Year....this time without a Shaman. So Sensei, I sympathise/empathise. Don't have any answers, but I understand the drive...

 

[WingedFallen]

Great trip report. I've done DMT a few times though I've never had an experience quite like that, but I will say with psychedelics that they always must be respected. I haven't tripped in years because of how badly I got rocked by a mushroom trip a few years ago, though I'm starting to think I want to trip again. Psychedelics have a LOT of promise for mental health, and if you've never been exposed to it I strongly suggest picking up a copy of "DMT: The Spirit Molecule" by Richard Strassman. He conducted clinical trials on DMT and the book is about his findings, theories, and the history of psychedelics in general in the psychiatric field, which was thriving before they all became illegal in the 60s. Some of the stuff he talks about in there, and that the people tripping talk about, changed the way I see the world, made me realize how much science and spirituality can connect up. There's a film by the same name that I have not seen, but I've heard it's good.

DMT is indeed the most powerful psychedelic because it exists in the human brain, a flood of it is released into the brain by our bodies when we die. Most of the similar things, such as Salvia, are not necessarily pleasant (Salvia was used shamanically as a sort of "trial by fire." It is believed traditionally to be a way to test one self, it isn't really meant to be fun) but I've heard people talk about DMT like they talk about finding God. I know an atheist who got his world rocked by a hard DMT trip and began to believe in reincarnation. Over the years I have found the best way to approach these things, and the most mentally healthful, is to approach them in a religious manner (whether you believe in the mystical or not) and prepare your body, mind, and soul beforehand. It literally doesn't matter if you think what you see and feel are just chemicals in your brain or something more, you will have a better time. I usually fast a little before I trip and plan for days, getting my head in the right place. The one and only time I did nothing of the sort was the above mentioned mushroom trip, where I didn't properly respect what the mushroom was capable of, or how strong truly strong mushrooms could be. It took all of my years of psychedelic experience, all of my knowledge of how to handle a hard trip, to not have it turn into a bad trip, but it was still a tense and INtense time. Every time you trip, no matter what it is, you need to be prepared for an experience that could permanently change your life. They can absolutely change you for the better, but can also cause serious psychological issues, especially when taken like a street drug (that isn't meant as a criticism, it seems like you know a bit about what you're talking about anyway but I figured I'd go into some of what I know).

 

[Sensei]

Great trip report. I've done DMT a few times though I've never had an experience quite like that, but I will say with psychedelics that they always must be respected. I haven't tripped in years because of how badly I got rocked by a mushroom trip a few years ago, though I'm starting to think I want to trip again. Psychedelics have a LOT of promise for mental health, and if you've never been exposed to it I strongly suggest picking up a copy of "DMT: The Spirit Molecule" by Richard Strassman. He conducted clinical trials on DMT and the book is about his findings, theories, and the history of psychedelics in general in the psychiatric field, which was thriving before they all became illegal in the 60s. Some of the stuff he talks about in there, and that the people tripping talk about, changed the way I see the world, made me realize how much science and spirituality can connect up. There's a film by the same name that I have not seen, but I've heard it's good.

DMT is indeed the most powerful psychedelic because it exists in the human brain, a flood of it is released into the brain by our bodies when we die. Most of the similar things, such as Salvia, are not necessarily pleasant (Salvia was used shamanically as a sort of "trial by fire." It is believed traditionally to be a way to test one self, it isn't really meant to be fun) but I've heard people talk about DMT like they talk about finding God. I know an atheist who got his world rocked by a hard DMT trip and began to believe in reincarnation. Over the years I have found the best way to approach these things, and the most mentally healthful, is to approach them in a religious manner (whether you believe in the mystical or not) and prepare your body, mind, and soul beforehand. It literally doesn't matter if you think what you see and feel are just chemicals in your brain or something more, you will have a better time. I usually fast a little before I trip and plan for days, getting my head in the right place. The one and only time I did nothing of the sort was the above mentioned mushroom trip, where I didn't properly respect what the mushroom was capable of, or how strong truly strong mushrooms could be. It took all of my years of psychedelic experience, all of my knowledge of how to handle a hard trip, to not have it turn into a bad trip, but it was still a tense and INtense time. Every time you trip, no matter what it is, you need to be prepared for an experience that could permanently change your life. They can absolutely change you for the better, but can also cause serious psychological issues, especially when taken like a street drug (that isn't meant as a criticism, it seems like you know a bit about what you're talking about anyway but I figured I'd go into some of what I know).

Thanks for sharing your insights and advice. I've just started exploring psychadelics myself. I'm restricted to legal ones, such as magic truffles, Hawaiian baby woodrose, Mimosa hostilis etc. I've learned the hard way that just because they're legal, however the hell they can be that, it doesn't mean that they're not dangerous. I'm in a position where I have nothing to lose anymore, so I'm prepared to take some risks, though.

The antidepressant properties of psychadelics fascinate me. I was shocked that this horror trip healed me, so to speak, and that I wasn't depressed or suicidal for several days afterwards. As you say, they can help, but they can also harm. I feel that if nothing else works, they are worth tryting, but otherwise they should probably be avoided.

Salvia really scares me. I think that if I would go all-in with salvia, my mind would break and I would end it all within short after the trip. Nevertheless, I intend to try saliva, but the traditional way,, i.e. chew leaves in moderate doses, and not smoke it. That seems to engender spiritual, but non-nightmarish experiences.

I'm not approaching psychadelics because I'm curious, but because I'm desperate. I don't search for God, but I do search for something beyond our miserable existence. Maybe there's nothing to find, but then I have at least tried.

For the record, I actually prepared myself meticulously for this trip, because I've read many trip reports and know that DMT is not to be taken lightly. I fasted, avoided tyramine-rich food, relaxed, meditated, and so on. Obviously, I didn't help.

 

[WingedFallen]

Thanks for sharing your insights and advice. I've just started exploring psychadelics myself. I'm restricted to legal ones, such as magic truffles, Hawaiian baby woodrose, Mimosa hostilis etc. I've learned the hard way that just because they're legal, however the hell they can be that, it doesn't mean that they're not dangerous. I'm in a position where I have nothing to lose anymore, so I'm prepared to take some risks, though.

The antidepressant properties of psychadelics fascinate me. I was shocked that this horror trip healed me, so to speak, and that I wasn't depressed or suicidal for several days afterwards. As you say, they can help, but they can also harm. I feel that if nothing else works, they are worth tryting, but otherwise they should probably be avoided.

Salvia really scares me. I think that if I would go all-in with salvia, my mind would break and I would end it all within short after the trip. Nevertheless, I intend to try saliva, but the traditional way,, i.e. chew leaves in moderate doses, and not smoke it. That seems to engender spiritual, but non-nightmarish experiences.

I'm not approaching psychadelics because I'm curious, but because I'm desperate. I don't search for God, but I do search for something beyond our miserable existence. Maybe there's nothing to find, but then I have at least tried.

For the record, I actrually prepared myself meticulously for this trip, because I've read many trip reports and know that DMT is not to be taken lightly. I fasted, avoided tyramine-rich food, relaxed, meditated, and so on. Obviously, I didn't help.

Well it sounds like you know what you're about. If I was going to take Salvia I would do it that way as well. I wish you the best of fortune in your searching. I hope you find what you seek, or at least find some catharsis in the attempt.