A common line espoused by prolifers if improve quality of life for people, then less people will CTB

[TAW122]

This is a line oftenly espoused by prolifers stating that if the conditions improve for some people, they may choose to 'live'. That notion and claim isn't entirely wrong and in theory, it would be true for a fair bit of people. However! The problem with that is it's nothing more than a talking point because the people who say that are the ones who do almost (nothing) to give incentives for people to want to live.

On another point (hint of antinatalism here) is that pro-lifers, especially those who are also natalists (pro-birth, almost going hand-in-hand), also talk about passing the buck to the next generation or about living long enough to make that change. It is no different than this video talking about how the slim possibility of someone giving birth to someone who (may) become a doctor or influential person changing the world. Again, while this is a non-zero possibility, it is much more probable that most people who are born are just NPCs and generally follow the other brainwashed masses without thinking or questioning why things are the way they are. This is almost akin to saying that "if I won the lottery, it would solve xyz problems, or I can do abc activity", which may be true, but again as we know probabalistically speaking, winning the lottery is extremely unlikely and no one (sensible) would ever count on it, or expect to. In fact, even the people who do win (the very very lucky ones) do not expect to win nor are they prepared to win as it "just happens" and they strike it lucky. What they (the winner(s)) choose to do with their winnings is another story and another point altogether.

I suppose that bringing about the change, such as improving the quality of life, taking away factors that would make people want to CTB, and even reflecting on perhaps the system itself is broken and needs an overhaul, reformation is just too much work. Therefore, it is simply easier for prolifers for peddle a wishful talking point about how people would be willing to live if they improved the conditions to make people more likely to thrive and want to live. Even if it is true for quite a few people rather than just those who want to exit existence or never to want to experience life itself, they (pro-lifers) are just reluctant to do anything meaningful to change. Again, it's all just talk and (little to) no (substantial) action for change.

 

[Lost in a Dream]

It probably would be true if pro-lifers' idea of "improving quality of life" was more than just pushing pills onto people and telling them to keep using the same, worn out coping skills they've been using day after day for who knows how long. When the pills don't work, then what? Try more until one of them kinda works? Coping skills are only good if you need to use them once in a while to get through stressful situations, but if you're under the same stress for months or years at a time, their usefulness will run out eventually.

Some people's problems could be solved with more money if they had it, because they could fix their physical health and maybe get a better place to live without worrying about homelessness. That certainly wouldn't hurt, but if someone's mind is as broken and defective as mine, then those things probably wouldn't help as much. Sometimes I wonder what might happen if I suddenly inherited a ton of money or a really nice house. If that happened, then I guess I could try killing myself in a mansion lol. I could go out with style.

 

[Hendo]

This is a line oftenly espoused by prolifers stating that if the conditions improve for some people, they may choose to 'live'. That notion and claim isn't entirely wrong and in theory, it would be true for a fair bit of people. However! The problem with that is it's nothing more than a talking point because the people who say that are the ones who do almost (nothing) to give incentives for people to want to live.

On another point (hint of antinatalism here) is that pro-lifers, especially those who are also natalists (pro-birth, almost going hand-in-hand), also talk about passing the buck to the next generation or about living long enough to make that change. It is no different than this video talking about how the slim possibility of someone giving birth to someone who (may) become a doctor or influential person changing the world. Again, while this is a non-zero possibility, it is much more probable that most people who are born are just NPCs and generally follow the other brainwashed masses without thinking or questioning why things are the way they are. This is almost akin to saying that "if I won the lottery, it would solve xyz problems, or I can do abc activity", which may be true, but again as we know probabalistically speaking, winning the lottery is extremely unlikely and no one (sensible) would ever count on it, or expect to. In fact, even the people who do win (the very very lucky ones) do not expect to win nor are they prepared to win as it "just happens" and they strike it lucky. What they (the winner(s)) choose to do with their winnings is another story and another point altogether.

I suppose that bringing about the change, such as improving the quality of life, taking away factors that would make people want to CTB, and even reflecting on perhaps the system itself is broken and needs an overhaul, reformation is just too much work. Therefore, it is simply easier for prolifers for peddle a wishful talking point about how people would be willing to live if they improved the conditions to make people more likely to thrive and want to live. Even if it is true for quite a few people rather than just those who want to exit existence or never to want to experience life itself, they (pro-lifers) are just reluctant to do anything meaningful to change. Again, it's all just talk and (little to) no (substantial) action for change.

That's very true, I don't think that anyone should assume that their method of help is the right thing for the person they are trying to help. I don't blame these people, because they can't help in any other way (in their minds). When I was depressed all I needed was a real friend to talk with about random stuff, not someone to mess with my personal life and bombard me with "solutions". It's important to educate people and that is a part of changing the system.

 

[FuneralCry]

And anyway those pro lifers who say things like that really couldn't care less about suicidal people even if they pretend to. They don't care about quality of life, they just wish to force people to suffer. If pro lifers actually cared then they would at least try to understand what suicidal people go through and maybe come to terms with the fact that for many people death is the better option and nothing could change that. But if someone wishes to prolong life at all costs then that is the opposite of caring.

 

[TAW122]

It probably would be true if pro-lifers' idea of "improving quality of life" was more than just pushing pills onto people and telling them to keep using the same, worn out coping skills they've been using day after day for who knows how long. When the pills don't work, then what? Try more until one of them kinda works? Coping skills are only good if you need to use them once in a while to get through stressful situations, but if you're under the same stress for months or years at a time, their usefulness will run out eventually.

Some people's problems could be solved with more money if they had it, because they could fix their physical health and maybe get a better place to live without worrying about homelessness. That certainly wouldn't hurt, but if someone's mind is as broken and defective as mine, then those things probably wouldn't help as much. Sometimes I wonder what might happen if I suddenly inherited a ton of money or a really nice house. If that happened, then I guess I could try killing myself in a mansion lol. I could go out with style.

That's true, they have no answer except to keep peddling the old tired solutions (which will not work on those whose reasons and causes for suicidality are based on philosophical and rational reasons). It does seem like they do not wish to face reality (as reality is too scary to confront) so they do anything and everything they can to suppress the notion of CTB being an option.

With regards to having more money, yes that may be true for people (overwhelming majority of people out there) whose problems are solely tied to financial factors, but yes, for people who philosophically believe that life sucks and that nonexistence is better, then money would only give more options for one to choose in how one wishes to go.

That's very true, I don't think that anyone should assume that their method of help is the right thing for the person they are trying to help. I don't blame these people, because they can't help in any other way (in their minds). When I was depressed all I needed was a real friend to talk with about random stuff, not someone to mess with my personal life and bombard me with "solutions". It's important to educate people and that is a part of changing the system.

Educating the people would be part of the solution and also a step towards reform in the mental health system and attitude towards how people treat each other. I believe we (as a pro-choice group) value liberty, quality of life over the quantity of life and the sanctity of life would be best to focus on first addressing how the mental health system is overreaching and invasive, and that we should not jump to conclusions and assume that a person who feels depressed must have some label, is ill, is irrational, or forcing people to live as a solution. Instead, we could suggest how to not violate people's freedoms, how to give them a voice (not censor them), and even have real safe spaces to talk about sensitive topics without the fear of hospitalization, detainment, and/or forced intervention.

And anyway those pro lifers who say things like that really couldn't care less about suicidal people even if they pretend to. They don't care about quality of life, they just wish to force people to suffer. If pro lifers actually cared then they would at least try to understand what suicidal people go through and maybe come to terms with the fact that for many people death is the better option and nothing could change that. But if someone wishes to prolong life at all costs then that is the opposite of caring.

Indeed. It is one thing to not care (which sucks I will acknowledge), but even worse yet is the forced will of pro-lifers that are imposed on those who don't agree with them. Then the institutions around the world back them up (legal system, financial institutions, educational institutions, businesses, etc.) and leaving the aggrieved with little to no recourse.

 

[Unending]

Yeah, the argument that everything is okay because their future kid will do good in the world is just beyond preposterous. I can't say that I'm convinced of this when I look at what the average people are doing in their lives.