A Bible verse that I resonate with

[LURKMOAR]

DISCLAIMER: I am not here to evangelise, nor am I intending to offend you if you have deep-seated religious trauma. I would have posted this elsewhere, but I did not think that there was a more appropriate or busy place for people to see and interact with this thread. Further, I speak only for myself when I speak of suicide here, regardless of the pronouns used, and I do not encourage anyone to go through with it.

I am not a Christian. I grew up Christian and went to church every Sunday, but I do not think that I had any real spiritual connection with the religion; I do not feel as if I truly had Christian values instilled in me, be it from sermons, lessons from my parents, etc. I was identifying as an atheist by age ten, and still do so to this day. However, I have been picking up, this last year, from time to time, a King James Bible that had been collecting dust on a shelf in my closet, and skimming through the proverb-rich books—especially the Gospels.

I will re-iterate that I remain staunchly an atheist, and you will not catch me being wooed over by any genre of "divinely-inspired-prose" fallacy, but I find the Bible to be the work that makes the greatest appeal to my sense of morality: that you ought to live life as an active fight-to-the-death with the evil that DOES, in fact, exist in this world, even if it means killing yourself to keep it from making you impure, compromising your rational faculties. In particular, the following passage is what radicalised me to take my own life:

"'But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.'"

(King James Version, Matt. 18:6-9)

The first part of the verse is a bit controversial, as it is sometimes taken literally and used for anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric. This is obviously not the case when you look at it in context. I think the message here is patent: one has an onus to set a moral example for others, as one's "salvation" depends on it. It is not necessarily your fault if suicide is what it must come to, given the overwhelming influence that material factors have over us, but once you realise that there is little hope for you to lead others to "salvation", after having exhausted your options, you are to do the right thing, and render yourself your deserved fate.

I have subconsciously thought this way a good while before having the words put in my head. I feel as if I only exist to weigh others down, be a burden on their consciences, and sow evil thoughts into their heads. I would go get help if it existed, but I am too far gone for mental health resources in my country to help me produce meaningful change. Seeing the circumstances for what they are, I know I ought to end up like Judas, who did the right thing once he realised that he was not going to redeem himself living.

I want to get some commentary from Christians and atheists/non-Christians alike. What do you make of this verse and others like it? Do you believe my interpretation is a gross perversion of Scripture (as I feel that it very well may be), or do you think it means exactly what I think it means, and is just another construct of guilt-tripping by the institution of religion?

Sincerely.

 

[beseechgod]

I am broken by the consequences of all I've done to try to escape the suffering which has only lead to more suffering. And yet I am still tormented by the same temptations and impossible desires that have been torturing me relentlessly my entire life and lead to where I am now. The desires have always been their own punishment. I hope I've learned my lesson and reality will allow me to die now. I feel it's the only way for me to be purified. If I go on living much longer I don't think I'll be able to keep containing all the pain within myself and it will just affect others more and more and I'll continue tearing away at my own body till I'm maimed beyond recognition. The harm to everyone including myself that has been done by my existence is inevitable, and I'd rather get it over with once and for all.

 

[squidsponge]

It's an interesting perspective. I don't think the interpretation to be perverse at all, that one should end their life to avoid evil. It makes sense to deduce that although abit extreme. I think the scripture is metaphorical to show the urgency

 

[Ligottian]

Some think this verse advocates castration for males in certain cases.

 

[Pluto]

 

[LURKMOAR]

Some think this verse advocates castration for males in certain cases.

Sure. But as @squidsponge said, the self-mutilation is, more or less, a (hardcore) metaphor to demonstrate the impetus of our moral obligations towards others. I, do, however, think that the verse is justifying suicide—that it is a rational choice to make when you find yourself leading others to sin. Nothing good comes out of self-mutilation unless you're some early Christian saint trying to make a point.

Otherwise, if someone was seriously wrestling with thoughts of sexually assaulting a fellow human being, I think the honourable thing to do would be to end their own life. Cutting their genitals would just be melodramatic, unhelpful, and performative, considering the evidence that much of human sexuality lies in the brain.

 

[Sunset Limited]

Imagine such a god that he argues with people as if he did not create them, becomes their enemy, and swears revenge. While he denigrates discord, he separates all of humanity into those who believe in him and those who do not, and turns them into enemies. He watches the small and helpless beings he creates fight for him and kill each other, and he gets romantic pleasure from this. As if that were not enough, he massacres them because they do not live as he wants, punishes them with various disasters and in various ways, and makes them suffer. As if that were not enough, he plans to torture them in fantastic ways forever in a place he calls hell. Again, the same god encourages people to be good, to do good, and talks about his infinite mercy and how good he is.

One can only kneel to such a god profile with fear. What if it is real and there is a hell? There is no need to test whether the divine religions are compatible with logic. There is no morally acceptable aspect anyway. Let's put aside whether they are compatible with logic and reason, I would still not obey if I saw him front of me. You can't enslave people who have bad lives by scaring them even with death. The fear of hell does the trick. That's why religion was invented. Don't forget heaven ofc.

Sorry for my broken english it is translated.

 

[brokeandbroken]

DISCLAIMER: I am not here to evangelise, nor am I intending to offend you if you have deep-seated religious trauma. I would have posted this elsewhere, but I did not think that there was a more appropriate or busy place for people to see and interact with this thread. Further, I speak only for myself when I speak of suicide here, regardless of the pronouns used, and I do not encourage anyone to go through with it.

I am not a Christian. I grew up Christian and went to church every Sunday, but I do not think that I had any real spiritual connection with the religion; I do not feel as if I truly had Christian values instilled in me, be it from sermons, lessons from my parents, etc. I was identifying as an atheist by age ten, and still do so to this day. However, I have been picking up, this last year, from time to time, a King James Bible that had been collecting dust on a shelf in my closet, and skimming through the proverb-rich books—especially the Gospels.

I will re-iterate that I remain staunchly an atheist, and you will not catch me being wooed over by any genre of "divinely-inspired-prose" fallacy, but I find the Bible to be the work that makes the greatest appeal to my sense of morality: that you ought to live life as an active fight-to-the-death with the evil that DOES, in fact, exist in this world, even if it means killing yourself to keep it from making you impure, compromising your rational faculties. In particular, the following passage is what radicalised me to take my own life:

"'But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.'"

(King James Version, Matt. 18:6-9)

The first part of the verse is a bit controversial, as it is sometimes taken literally and used for anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric. This is obviously not the case when you look at it in context. I think the message here is patent: one has an onus to set a moral example for others, as one's "salvation" depends on it. It is not necessarily your fault if suicide is what it must come to, given the overwhelming influence that material factors have over us, but once you realise that there is little hope for you to lead others to "salvation", after having exhausted your options, you are to do the right thing, and render yourself your deserved fate.

I have subconsciously thought this way a good while before having the words put in my head. I feel as if I only exist to weigh others down, be a burden on their consciences, and sow evil thoughts into their heads. I would go get help if it existed, but I am too far gone for mental health resources in my country to help me produce meaningful change. Seeing the circumstances for what they are, I know I ought to end up like Judas, who did the right thing once he realised that he was not going to redeem himself living.

I want to get some commentary from Christians and atheists/non-Christians alike. What do you make of this verse and others like it? Do you believe my interpretation is a gross perversion of Scripture (as I feel that it very well may be), or do you think it means exactly what I think it means, and is just another construct of guilt-tripping by the institution of religion?

Sincerely.

Yeah im not sure why the first part is considered LBGTQ. It's basically saying we shouldn't encourage or help others to sin particularly children though the neglected or weak probably could be included. Presumably the overarching point is that we shouldn't steer people away from God. But towards him. If whatever causes is to sin or do that exists we should ameliorate that as short term pain is better then eternity in tornent.

That said i can see the argument i suppose for guilt tripping but I don't really buy it. Christianity is either true or it isnt. If it is true it's not guilt tripping but good advice. If it's not true then it literally doesn't matter.

To be honest matthew 6:26 screws with me the most: Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?

How valuable are humans to God then when people starve to death all the time. Like in Auschwitz when people starved to death feet from warehouses of food. What kind of perverse logic says they are valuable even more so then birds. Got to tell you if I'm starving to death I'm going to be pretty worried. I think when someone dies from forced starvation it's pretty hard to say they are more valuable in God's eyes to birds. Maybe on par but certainly not more. This is reflected in places all over too see Syria in places like Sednaya or North Korea. Seems a little abusive to have people starving to death but go hey don't worry (literally) Arbeit Macht Frei.