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Jojogu

Member
Feb 2, 2021
51
Dozens of people in the UK died after buying a poisonous substance from a seller in Canada, who is accused of helping people to take their own lives.

The National Crime Agency (NCA) could not confirm the chemical was the direct cause of the 88 deaths but has launched a criminal investigation.

British police have been making welfare visits to hundreds of addresses to trace buyers across the country.

Kenneth Law was arrested in Toronto in May, accused of assisting suicide.

The 57-year-old is thought to have run a number of websites selling equipment to assist suicide.

Canadian authorities believe he sent 1,200 packages to customers in more than 40 countries, though it is not known how many included the poisonous substance.

BBC News is not naming the chemical allegedly sold by Mr Law.

Peel Regional Police said they began investigating the case in April following the sudden death of an adult in the Toronto area.

Alleged links between Mr Law and deaths in the UK first surfaced in an undercover investigation by The Times the same month.

Since Mr Law's arrest, police forces across the UK have been making welfare checks on everyone who ordered the substance.

The NCA, which was coordinating the checks, said that 232 people in the UK had been identified as buying from Mr Law over a two-year period.

The NCA says 88 of them later died,but at this stage there are no confirmed links between the items purchased from the websites and cause of death.

NCA deputy director Craig Turner said: "Our deepest sympathies are with the loved ones of those who have died. They are being supported by specially trained officers from police forces.

"In consultation with the Crown Prosecution Service, the NCA has taken the decision to conduct an investigation into potential criminal offences committed in the UK. This operation is under way."

Tom Parfett, from Maidenhead, was 22 when he ended his own life in October 2021 after buying the chemical from Mr Law.

His father David Parfett is angry at what he sees as police failures.

"It's important for families to understand what has happened and why policing worldwide allowed this scale of deaths despite clear warning signs," he said.

Mr Parfett fears there other suppliers out there and unregulated websites promoting suicide.

"What can be done immediately to close down internet sites that prey on vulnerable young people and prosecute the people who take pleasure in helping others take their own life?" he asked.

In a separate interview with BBC Radio 4's Today programme, Mr Parfett said his son had discussed taking his own life with people he met online in communities set up to discuss the subject, and was encouraged to do so by some.

He added: "We have to accept that in the modern age, people can find like-minded people to discuss even the most difficult problems...those communities are unregulated and causing a huge amount of harm."

Mr Parfett called for stronger action from police and policymakers to crack down on people selling poison, and for online communities targeting vulnerable people to be regulated.

He continued: "We need to be more sensitive around the risks that people like Tom have in society through their ability to find information online that is unchallenged."

Mr Law, who is in custody, is due to appear in court again later this month.

Under the country's criminal code, counselling or aiding a person to die by suicide can result in a 14-year prison sentence.

BBC News
 
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OrphicEnd

OrphicEnd

ㅤㅤ‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎
Aug 24, 2023
231
Thank you for sharing the information
 
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Agon321

Agon321

I use google translate
Aug 21, 2023
1,063
Unfortunately, it is to be expected that other countries will also become more restrictive. I just hope it happens as late as possible.
 
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FuneralCry

FuneralCry

Tortured by evil humans
Sep 24, 2020
35,209
I envy the people who are gone, they are just so incredibly fortunate to me as they managed to prevent all future suffering. But news articles like that are just so disgusting to me, it's evil wanting to deny people a right to die in peace.

People like that just create more suffering and it's beyond repulsive how they want to leave people with no choice but to resort to risky suicide methods, I'm sorry but nobody is obligated to continue existing here, it's literally none of your business if other people wish to die, they have a right to die, it's compassionate selling ways to reliably die as not everyone even wants to exist here. If someone is against the option of suicide in this world where there is unlimited potential to suffer they lack any compassion.
 
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Fox of June

Member
Jun 12, 2023
39
I read this quote from the Mail Online article
'There were enough signals early on in investigations worldwide to have stopped this and stopped it sooner which would have saved lives. I think that should be the focus.
Those people didn't want their lives saving. I wish more people in society would understand this.

Mail Online
 
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GettingOut

GettingOut

I'm not worth any tears
Aug 16, 2022
126
Mr Parfett's comments makes me think he is very similar to my mother. Not available when I need her while I'm alive, but she will blame everybody but herself afterwards. They usually care more about how they are perceived, than the feelings of the person with depression. This adds unnecessary stress to a fragile victim of mental health 😢
 
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L

lebrodude

Arcanist
Jul 18, 2022
440
Reading through that Mail article.

I wonder how many were members here, or were at least browsing the forum.

Not like you would have found the IC website if you had no idea what you were looking for.
 
J

jessisme

Specialist
Dec 3, 2022
383
Why does family always want to place the blame on outside actors like chemical suppliers or peer support websites when a person has commit suicide rather than accept that the person has taken his life at his own will and had particular, very deep reasons for doing that, reasons we may never know? I just think it is so foolish to scapegoat these outside actors. They cannot force anyone to do anything. When people make the difficult and deeply personal decision to commit suicide and act on it it is something that they do themselves. Whether families like it or not they are responsible for their passing, not anyone else.
 
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FreeSpirit1Love

FreeSpirit1Love

Navigating the storm to my final port
Jul 27, 2023
25
Lack of access to means for a peaceful exit is so frustrating. I have suffered long enough and tried extremely hard to make the best of this life. This life doesn't want me and I don't want it. Such a shame that suppliers face such awful penalties. To me, they are doing an important service for others.
 
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BornByGhosts

wants to overcome Sports Illustrated
Mar 3, 2023
83
I'm so glad Tom is at peace away from such a sociopath
 
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Szinuus

Szinuus

I see the bus...I can almost see it
Aug 19, 2022
211
There are countries where an ordinary citizen still can buy it. If someone is desperate enough, there is option to travel there, buy it and take it in a hotel room, for example. People will always seek for a peaceful methods.
 
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Rational man

Rational man

Enlightened
Oct 19, 2021
1,384
Does anyone know why this man was described as ' vulnerable ' and was he receiving any help from the UK health services ?.
 
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Minsu

Minsu

Suicidal korean girl 🇰🇷🏳️‍🌈
Jan 17, 2023
409
Maybe a dumb question, but it was sn, right?
 
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G

Gonnerr

Enlightened
Mar 12, 2023
1,324
Im no lawyer, but the salt he sold is for curing meat. There was a disclaimer on his website to use it only for this purpose.

I hope charge will be dropped.

The same disclaimer there is on charcoal briquettes bags, but will weber or kingsford will get charge over suicide by charcoal, no.
 
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I_Am_Trashman

Member
Jun 4, 2018
39
If we don't have the right to die we are not free.
 
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Forever Sleep

Earned it we have...
May 4, 2022
8,038
Im no lawyer, but the salt he sold is for curing meat. There was a disclaimer on his website to use it only for this purpose.

I hope charge will be dropped.

The same disclaimer there is on charcoal briquettes bags, but will weber or kingsford will get charge over suicide by charcoal, no.

True and if he'd left it at that- he'd probably be in a better position. But- from what I read, he also told people how to use it to CTB. That was really unnecessary- as I imagine people buying it to do that already know how to use it!

But I'd say there- he crossed a line and put himself in the 'assisting a suicide' bracket. A hardware store couldn't be prosecuted for selling someone rope but I imagine they could get into trouble if they showed someone how to tie a noose with it.

Can't quite remember the details with KL. I think it may have been a journalist that pretended to be a customer to trap him. People were discussing it in this thread:

 
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Gonnerr

Enlightened
Mar 12, 2023
1,324
True and if he'd left it at that- he'd probably be in a better position. But- from what I read, he also told people how to use it to CTB. That was really unnecessary- as I imagine people buying it to do that already know how to use it!

But I'd say there- he crossed a line and put himself in the 'assisting a suicide' bracket. A hardware store couldn't be prosecuted for selling someone rope but I imagine they could get into trouble if they showed someone how to tie a noose with it.

Can't quite remember the details with KL. I think it may have been a journalist that pretended to be a customer to trap him. People were discussing it in this thread:

I didn't know he told people how to use it to ctb , now he is going to jail.
 
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fakeimportance

Member
May 4, 2023
14
Articles like this always frustrate me. They focus on who they can blame instead of acknowledging the pain that those who died must have been going through.

I'm not saying that what KL did isn't against the law in some places, and that makes this whole issue an ethical challenge, and I guess I also have no idea whether he was doing this out of kindness or to profit off depression which makes it complex. But I wish we'd spend more time talking about why those people felt the need to use the chemical instead of just dismissing it as 'he's evil and tricked people' or something. As if adults didn't make these decisions on their own.. I mean you don't use SN as a method unless you've done a lot of research, i.e. you've thought this through.
 
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William01

Student
Nov 2, 2021
136
I wonder these undercover journalists - did they ask Law how it could be used to die? 🤔

Luckily I got mine before all this started (but had the police land my doorstep- thankfully they believed i disposed of it) when u was in contact with Law via email, it was just professional exchanges. I did ask him something like was "curing salt" as it was labelled on dispatch receipt the same as SN. I also told him in an email "I'm sure you know the real reason I want this" to which he responded on a positive note.

He seemed to me, a person who would answer any question you wanted. I wonder can his legal defence argue that he was entrapped into it and it wasn't his policy to discuss how to use it to die therefore asking the court to dismiss the charges 🤔
 
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Departme

Departme

Member
Mar 23, 2023
80
Yes it was on the bbc news show also and this forum got a mention, not by name and no mention its pro-choice, but went on to say how a vulnerable person could visit and be 'encouraged' to commit suicide then access the poison in a few clicks!? They know how to spin a narrative in this hell hole of a country.
 
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betternever2havbeen

Elementalist
Jun 19, 2022
869
Wish I had got some SN from IC when I had the chance. Parents denying their ADULT son/daughter's choices in death because being in denial and putting the blame on someone else is easier. Not even giving them the dignity and respect of accepting their decision. Someone get these people some therapy to get out of the anger and denial phases of grief. I would feel sorry for them if they weren't trying to restrict MY method and trying to trap me here in a living hell even though they don't have to live my life and it won't bring their child back. Revenge is all it is.

Vulnerable=adult son making a decision the parents don't like and they're pissed because they can't control him or force him to stay here anymore. So naturally he must've been manipulated and encouraged into it, suppose he was forced into finding and joining the website as well. Assuming he even was on here? Back in 2021 SN was freely available in many places so that guy would've found it elsewhere if he couldn't get it from Kenneth Law so he still would've CTB in any case.
 
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Archness

Archness

Defective Personel
Jan 20, 2023
458
He added: "We have to accept that in the modern age, people can find like-minded people to discuss even the most difficult problems...those communities are unregulated and causing a huge amount of harm."

How disingenuous. We should ban all suicide talk? censor it out of all media, outside of pro-life propaganda?

Not that surprised the UK is saying these kinds of things just need to be "regulated".

Articles like this always frustrate me. They focus on who they can blame instead of acknowledging the pain that those who died must have been going through.
Vulnerable=adult son making a decision the parents don't like and they're pissed because they can't control him or force him to stay here anymore. So naturally he must've been manipulated and encouraged into it, suppose he was forced into finding and joining the website as well.

Not much too say but "yes", though as a young-adult I know my parents would def be like this, rip.
What'd compound the fact is that I'm autistic, and it's possible my parents, and basically a guarantee /w people who knew me back then, that they'd think I was literally incapable of these kinds of thoughts/suicidallity; not just bc autism, but observing me most would agree I was indeed incapable of such things.
 
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Orbitc

Orbitc

Sorry for my English
Jul 2, 2023
277
Why does family always want to place the blame on outside actors like chemical suppliers or peer support websites when a person has commit suicide rather than accept that the person has taken his life at his own will and had particular, very deep reasons for doing that, reasons we may never know? I just think it is so foolish to scapegoat these outside actors. They cannot force anyone to do anything. When people make the difficult and deeply personal decision to commit suicide and act on it it is something that they do themselves. Whether families like it or not they are responsible for their passing, not anyone else.
So disgusting that such families blame someone else - the seller, people from the forums or someone else. Such families were so inconsiderate to the person that they did not notice his depression or even thet was caused his depression and then they dare to sue Amazon to get money..... fck!
 
K

kkkangkkk

Member
Aug 6, 2023
32
Mr Parfett's comments makes me think he is very similar to my mother. Not available when I need her while I'm alive, but she will blame everybody but herself afterwards. They usually care more about how they are perceived, than the feelings of the person with depression. This adds unnecessary stress to a fragile victim of mental health 😢

Not saying this is the case, but in many situations family members are part of the reason of the suicide. I know for me it is.
 
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jbear824

jbear824

trapped & scared
Jul 4, 2023
381
Now see, this is what persecution looks like. Suicidal people, and pro-choice people are not liked in this world.

The heartlessness of this...this crusade to force us to live in a shit world/life. It makes me physically nauseous. I bet he's hurt by the loss, but being afraid of feeling hurt is no justification to force other people to suffer. I hate that argument. Life hurts. Death hurts. Everything hurts. That's the whole point. Fuck.

If they ban or censor sites like this, they are only condemning people to more suffering. Having this site has already made it easier for me in my situation where I want to ctb but Im compelled to be alive. Trapped. This site has given me relief.

The pro-life stance just makes me sick now. It's heartless and cruel. And banning information about it, censoring discussion of it, the enforcement of living/existence...that's harm! Especially with the current global attitude of not really caring about making life good for everyone. Forcing people to live in poverty or work themselves to death to avoid it.

These pro-life people think they are a force for good. And they aren't. They may not be evil, but they are pro suffering. And they don't realize the suffering they promote. It will be a long time before the global attitude towards suicide changes. and that even more depressing.

This site helps me deal with the fact that I can't ctb even though I want to by providing me a space to deal with these feelings without having my freedom taken away.
 
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Jojogu

Member
Feb 2, 2021
51
UPDATE:

Canadian 'poison seller' Kenneth Law faces more charges

Police in Canada have brought an additional 12 charges against a man accused of supplying a poisonous chemical to people who died by suicide.

Kenneth Law, 57, from Toronto had already been charged in May this year with two counts of counselling or aiding suicide in Canada.

Police think Mr Law may have sent more than 1,200 parcels containing lethal substances to around 40 countries.
 
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